January 15, 2008 Watchtower & The One Mistake We All Made:

by t33ap80c 82 Replies latest jw friends

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  t33ap80c

  Hi oompa

  You mentioned that when you try to bring up some of the Society’s pre-1919 teachings that have changed, your dad brings up some of their teachings that have not changed and then he says, "The Society was more correct than anyone else."

  You then asked, "How to get around this?"

  Page 40 of "Captives of a Concept" says this: "There are some teachings that have not changed since 1919. They include: God’s Name is not "God," God is not a Trinity, the soul is not immortal, hell is not hot, the dead are not conscious and the earth will not be destroyed. But there were others who taught these same things.* If these teachings would have passed an examination by Jesus they would have passed no matter who was teaching them."

  *A footnote explains: On page 622 of the "Proclaimers" book it acknowledges that Russell was not the only one who taught these things but it was just that he did a better job of publishing them than anyone else. See also page 45 under the heading, "Influence of Others."

  What the "Proclaimers" book acknowledges (above) may help you "get around" your dad's present argument, but unless he is ready to face the possibility that the Society may not be "Jehovah’s organization" he will likely come up with some other reason (like Proverbs 4:18’s "new light") that will allows him to continue to believe what he wants (or needs) to believe no matter the Society was or wasn’t teaching down till 1919.

  To help keep me from getting frustrated when this happens I always try to keep in mind what Paul explained to Timothy when he said how we need to be as gentle and mild as we can when presenting what we have learned in hope that "God may give them repentance leading to an accurate knowledge of the truth" about the Watchtower Society "and (then) they may come back to their proper senses." – 2 Timothy 2:23-26

  I was surprised to notice that it isn’t the evidence that we have that will lead them to the knowledge of the truth. It is God giving them repentance that will do it.

  Don Cameron
• 

  lovelylil

  Great point. I sometimes sit and wonder HOW I could have been so stupid to take the word of people I don't even know that Christ appointed them his only true followers. When you look back on it, you can see the utter ridiculousness of it all. I'll tell you one thing though, I learned to now Question EVERYTHING. And anyone presenting thier group as the only truth better have some hard evidence to back it up.

  Of course, no one can provide that evidence, which is another hard learned lesson because I learned that "truth" is subjective not absolute. Lilly
• 

  AWAKE&WATCHING

  Don- I love it when you show up to post - don't be a stranger.

  You are one of my heroes.
• 

  moshe

  The mistake all religiously minded people make is accepting a belief system that someone else invented.
• 

  oompa

  DC: And how discreet could they have been since they all announced the wrong date of 1874 for almost seven decades (67 years)?

  So when/where exactly did WT change the date of Christ presence? Seem like 1941 and I think I remeber the proclaimers book mentioning that. Man that dimmer switch is slow to turn up the light. That slow turning dimmer has now gone 66 years letting WT teach 1914 is when Jesus came, so I guess in one more year, that date will be tossed too.....oompa
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  t33ap80c

  Hi Bud,

  You said, "That certain wrong things were being taught prior to 1919 is irrelevant."

  But their interpretation of Matthew 24:45-47 sure seems to make those pre-1919 teachings relevant. Here is how they explain their relevance in the January 15, 2008 Watchtower:

  "When Christ inspected’ the faithful and discreet slave’ in 1918, he found those anointed ones on earth to be faithful in providing spiritual ‘food at the proper time.’ Hence, Jesus was pleased thereafter to appoint them ‘over all his belongings.’ (Read Matthew 24:45-47)"

  I notice that whether or not they had been considered "faithful" and therefore receive the above appointment was determined solely on the basis of what they had been providing in the way of spiritual food. And that Jesus' appointment was going to be based solely on what they had been teaching down till that time.

  Former President Frederick Franz carefully explained the relevance of those teachings this way:

  "The serving of food, the right sort of food at the proper time was the issue. It had to be according to this that a decision must be rendered by the returned master [Jesus]…On inspecting [the Society] in the year 1919 C.E… Jesus Christ did find the appointed "slave" faithful and discreet in the feeding of his [disciples]…

  "Could they, by even their latest record [of teachings] down till 1919 prove that they themselves were the composite "faithful and discreet slave" class of Jesus Christ?… The quality of the food itself was to be considered."

  – "Captives of a Concept" p. 19

  Again Bud, how can we read these things and conclude that the Society feels that what they had been teaching down till 1919 was "irrelevant"? Can the word "irrelevant" be inserted into either the above 2008 Watchtower statement or in any of Franz’s comments?

  Although you feel that what they had been teaching down till 1919 was irrelevant, apparently the Governing Body feels that what they were teaching was essential to their claim to being "God's faithful and discreet slave organization" today.

  Don Cameron
• 

  t33ap80c

  Hi again oompa,

  You asked…

  So when/where exactly did WT change the date of Christ presence?

  According to the "Proclaimers" book the date was changed to 1914 in 1943. The footnote on page 133 explains that the change is found in their 1943 book "The Truth Will Make You Free." –

  See also the footnote 38 on page 22 of "Captives of a Concept."

  I noticed that you referred to the "dimmer switch" I mention in the book. But in the book I suggest that the Society doesn’t use a dimmer switch according to the ‘gradual, progressive’ way they interpret Proverbs 4:18. Rather in actual practice they use a simple ON/OFF switch that turns old teachings off and calls them "old light" and new ones on and calls them "new light."

  Don Cameron
• 

  t33ap80c

  Hi again Bud,

  NOTE: This is a resubmission of my above post to you. I don't know why most of it was in such small print. I hope I corrected it in this post so that it easier to read.

  ___________________________

  You said, "That certain wrong things were being taught prior to 1919 is irrelevant."

  But their interpretation of Matthew 24:45-47 sure seems to make those pre-1919 teachings relevant. Here is how they explain their relevance in the January 15, 2008 Watchtower:

  "When Christ inspected’ the faithful and discreet slave’ in 1918, he found those anointed ones on earth to be faithful in providing spiritual ‘food at the proper time.’ Hence, Jesus was pleased thereafter to appoint them ‘over all his belongings.’ (Read Matthew 24:45-47)"

  I notice that whether or not they had been considered "faithful" and therefore receive the above appointment was determined solely on the basis of what they had been providing in the way of spiritual food. And that Jesus' appointment was going to be based solely on what they had been teaching down till that time.

  Former President Frederick Franz carefully explained the relevance of those teachings this way:

  "The serving of food, the right sort of food at the proper time was the issue. It had to be according to this that a decision must be rendered by the returned master [Jesus]…On inspecting [the Society] in the year 1919 C.E… Jesus Christ did find the appointed "slave" faithful and discreet in the feeding of his [disciples]… "Could they, by even their latest record [of teachings] down till 1919 prove that they themselves were the composite "faithful and discreet slave" class of Jesus Christ?… The quality of the food itself was to be considered."

  – "God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached." See "The 'Slave' Who Lived To See the Sign."

  Again Bud, how can we read these things and conclude that the Society feels that what they had been teaching down till 1919 was "irrelevant"? Can the word "irrelevant" be inserted into either the above 2008 Watchtower statement or in any of Franz’s comments?

  Although you feel that what they had been teaching down till 1919 was irrelevant, apparently the Governing Body feels that what they were teaching was essential to their claim to being "God's faithful and discreet slave organization" today .

  Don Cameron
• 

  oompa

  DC, I was doing research on LIGHT recently and did fine one article that mentioned about two dozen "flashes of light" and I think I did a post that I felt like I was raised in a Disco with all the strobes going off. But I thought there was some info too on the "gradual" light using the scripture that jesus said he had more info for the apostles but they were not ready yet. Is there some gradual light teachings plus the flashes??...oompa
• 

  TD

  According to the "Proclaimers" book the date was changed to 1914 in 1943. The footnote on page 133 explains that the change is found in their 1943 book "The Truth Will Make You Free." – See also the footnote 38 on page 22 of "Captives of a Concept."

  The Proclaimers book is incorrect on this point. --Why I don't know because it actually makes the JW's look worse instead of better.

  The date for the commencement of the Parousia was changed to 1914 in the early 1930's.

  This has been documented at length: http://www.catholic-forum.com/members/popestleo/Historical%20Idealism%20and%20Jehovahs%20Witnesses.pdf

  1874 was still retained as the start of the seventh millenium up until 1943. In 1943 the JW chronology was reworked and this event was moved up 100 years. 1874 was at that point, discarded entirely.