Look, I know my avatar is revealing, just get over it...I can't help that I have a large middle finger.
I c a n ' t l o o k a w a y! I t 's s o o f f e n s i v e b u t h y p n o t i z i n g ! I w i l l n e v e r v i e w h i m t h e s a m e !
For the ladies. Do you think that when you.....
by NotaNess 236 Replies latest jw friends
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sweetstuff
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wanderlustguy
I'm just glad that I was allowed to keep it up...there have been complaints...judicial committees formed...but it's ok, all I got was reproof.
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sweetstuff
I'm just glad that I was allowed to keep it up...there have been complaints...judicial committees formed...but it's ok, all I got was reproof.
LOL, lucky you, only reproved!
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nvrgnbk
Complaints?
About the Man in Black?
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Merry Magdalene
Merry: "Explain yourself".
changeling
Such a lovely invitation. How can I refuse?
I was actually reading and formulating my thoughts on this a bit earlier but was called away from the computer.
I think it is very important that men should restrain their thoughts and desires, or at the very least their words and actions, regardless of what a woman is or is not wearing.
I also think it is very important for women to do the same. Self-restraint. Is it fair for women to dress, speak or act provocatively and to hell with whoever might be aroused or offended by it?
Too many people, men and women both, like their freedoms to come without responsibility or consideration for others. I am seeing too much of blaming others and putting responsibility solely on the other sex, and not enough of tending to ourselves, again from men and women both.
I very much appreciate the teachings of Islam in this regard. Men and women alike are told to "lower their gaze" when confronted by something that naturally triggers arousal, and both are told to dress modestly and to not try to draw attention to themselves, whether that be to whatever attractiveness they might be blessed with or whatever wealth they might possess. We are not to try to make the opposite sex desire us or the same sex envy us. We are advised to appreciate each other more for our soul qualities than our physical qualities. "If you've got it, flaunt it," is definitely not Islamic.
We are not prudes by any means either. Spouses are encouraged to dress, speak and act in private in such ways as to bring the greatest pleasure to each other. But, in regards to women's clothes, things that might be perfectly great in private--sexy, seductive, arousing--are now worn freely in public with the consequence that young girl's imitate what they see and I find that quite distressing, the sexualization of children.
I am raising my daughter with the idea of modesty and not showing off what we've got. I am not raising her with the idea that she is at all responsible for someone else's actions, only for her own. My mother believed that women were responsible for men's behaviour, sexually (that men could not be expected to control themselves). I do not believe that. But I also don't believe in pushing their buttons, so to speak.
That's all from this corner.
~Merry
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nvrgnbk
Interesting points, Merry.
I don't think any reasonable person would argue that "anything goes".
I guess the real question becomes one's definition of what is "provocative".
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wanderlustguy
Complaints?
About the Man in Black?
Yup, true story. I didn't get upset about it, but was suprised. It's been the same since I started here, tried changing it once but got talked into leaving it alone by the group at the time. I think it was more about the gesture, which if you know me and know who it's for...it's not all that offensive anymore. Sorry to derail the subject at hand, back to it. If a man is a real man and has some respect for himself, as well as a good dose of confidence, a woman could walk by stark naked and not tell that he even noticed. Whether or not he did is another thing altogether. Self control and self restraint are both qualities that have to be developed, and part of that in this particular situation includes a respect for women as people, not just that sweet little thing with just enough showing to catch your attention. Of course it is a wonderful thing to find someone with both qualities, but unfortunately a lot of great people are looked over for being "too attractive" just as much as for being "unattractive". People are weird.
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NotaNess
Thank you Merry for seeing past my bluntness, and addressing the real issue. Pertaining to women, many Men don't know how to control their outright staring and commenting at the ladies. Others, don't want to try and control it. It's just what they do.
My original point that most that posted missed, is that the cause and effect of revealing alot of flesh and wearing almost next to nothing is something that women seem to ignore or just don't care what people think. But guys are gonna look at your goods, especially if they are being "shown off". This is the effect of the cause, but don't act like all these guys that are oogling and drooling have no good reasons for doing it.
You can be less revealing and still be attractive, without over doing it. If you over do it, you better expect what comes with it. And don't complain about it.
( I realize there are different opinions on what over-doing-it is)
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Magick
Your ability to see my boobs has NOTHING to do with my sexual behaviour or self-respect and
EVERYTHING to do with your inability to see me as human rather than an object for your amusement.
omg this "letter" is hilarious, i had to share.
A letter from Christian Guys....
Girls, could we talk to you right out of our hearts for a few minutes?
It is awkward for us to talk about something of this nature, in person,
so we thought we would write our feelings.
We are young men who have been saved and baptized in the Holy Spirit.
We desperately want to live for Christ and not follow the ways of the
world. Since we have been baptized (immersed) in a "Holy" Spirit, we
feel in our hearts that we should live "holy" lives. After all, our
bodies are the temple, the sanctuary, the place where the "Holy" Spirit
lives and makes His home.
We know that guys and girls are affected differently, so since we
desperately want to follow hard after God, could we kindly and
respectfully ask you to help us with a few things?
We realize that girls are primarily stimulated or turned on by "touch."
Did you know that guys are turned on by "sight?" So when you are
"aroused" (sexually awakened) by a guy's "touch," we are in the same
way aroused by mere "sight." Let us explain. When we see girls who are
dressed in a suggestive, revealing, provocative, teasing, tantalizing
manner, our sexual desires are aroused. Our bodies are then affected.
To be absolutely candid, let us give you some examples of what we are
referring to. If you are wearing a blouse that barely meets the waist
of your slacks and some of your skin showswhile you are moving around,
or simply while you are walking, sitting, or kneeling, our minds are
geared to wonder what more of your body would look like further
up....This causes our bodies to respond biologically, and suddenl we
are fighting a war in our minds and bodies. And that war of lust is
continuing often long, even hours, after you are gone. We hate this,
because our "righteous man" wants to think pure thoughts....
When you wear low-cut tops which are in any degree revealing, or when
you bend over, and they are revealing, this again causes us big
problems in the flesh. Or if the back is out of your top, we
automatically think that you do not have the undergarment on, and the
Spirit and the flesh begin to fight again. Or when we see any glimpse
of your undergarments, such as straps and the like, we have trouble.
What we are trying to say is this: If it is not for sale, don't
advertise it. We really feel that the still small voice of the Holy
Spirit speaks to you and nudges you when it is too tight, too short,
too low, or too revealing. Will you listen to that voice? For the
Scripture says, "Quench not the Spirit." (1 Thess. 5:19)
Girls, do you know what we would really like? We would like to come
among our Christian sisters and not have to fight and struggle in the
flesh. We do not need to have to wrestle in the flesh at church or at
church activities. We men, whether young, old, single or married, are
faced with this every day among girls of the "world." But we would like
to have rest in our Spirit man when we come among Christian girls.
After all, doesn't the Scripture tell us to "come out from among the
world and be you separate, saith the Lord." (2 Cor. 6:17) It also tells
us that "all that is in the world, the lust of the eye, and the lust of
the flesh, is not of the Father, but is of the world." (1 John 2:15) We
are the church, not the world.
We know that people often use the verse, "Man looketh on the outward
appearance, but God looketh on the heart," (1 Sam. 16:7) to condone
anything they wish to wear. This is one of the most misused/used
out-of-context verses in the Bible. Conversely, the fact is, if your
heart is pure, your outward appearance will be modest....
Girls can be fashionable and modest at the same time. To be honest, we
respect you more when your appearance is modest, as the Scripture
commands in 1 Timothy 2:9. We really do not want the kind of girl who
dresses provocatively, for we know that if we marry her, she will still
be that way in the presence of other men once we are married.
We know that we have Christian responsibilites toward girls, too. We
must be careful to portray ourselves properly. We must treat you like
ladies. If we are really committed Christian guys, we will strive to
treat you like Jesus would. After all, you are daughters of God.
Thank you, dear Christian sisters, for hearing our hearts on this
subject. Once we have conveyed the truth of the matter to you, you
become responsible before God for what you do with the truth. We really
are "our brother's keeper." (Genesis 4:9.) We know that there is a
"cult of conformity" in our generation, but we as Christians "march to
the beat of a different drummer." Please, girls, do not say, "I don't
care," but help us in these last days to live as close to Jesus as we
can. Thank you so much.
Sincerely,
Committed Christian Guys" -
sweetstuff
I very much appreciate the teachings of Islam in this regard. Men and women alike are told to "lower their gaze" when confronted by something that naturally triggers arousal, and both are told to dress modestly and to not try to draw attention to themselves, whether that be to whatever attractiveness they might be blessed with or whatever wealth they might possess. We are not to try to make the opposite sex desire us or the same sex envy us. We are advised to appreciate each other more for our soul qualities than our physical qualities. "If you've got it, flaunt it," is definitely not Islamic.
Ok I am trying to be very tactful and respectful to your beliefs here Merry, but this is not what I have seen practiced by Islam in North America. The muslim men walk around in shorts, and t-shirts while their wives lower their gaze, and are covered in the blistering heat and they (the husbands) stare at non-muslim chicks right in front of their wives. They do not lower their gaze from anything that might trigger arousal.
The biggest demographics for online porn in the world are muslim countries. So if the theory behind Islamic belief in modesty worked, that would not be the case. Feel free to check into that yourself. Women in Islamic practice are subdued because they have been taught by a male dominated belief system that women are inheriently impure, after all, 80% of hell consists of women right?
Do you believe as the Quaran teachs that if a woman is not obedient to her husband he also has the right to beat her, if other methods fail? I have heard the protests of muslim women saying that women hold a place of respect in Islam, but I have also seen first hand from muslim friends how that translates in reality. The sad part is, I once defended the theocratical order of headship by men, mislead as I was.
Did modest clothing stop the women in Afganistan from being brutally raped by members of the Taliban leadership? Nope. It did not. Did Islamic principals stop said rapists from doing such action?
So I beg to differ with you on how Islamic modesty is superior in earning respect for inner beauty. It's all about controlling women's sexuality and power so they can be dominated, IMO. I mean no offense by this comment, it is my honest opinion and is in no way an attack on your person in any way shape or form.
