Can God's love be demanded? (page 3)

Sad emo

So God is less than human or less free than man?

I'm not sure about the angle you're coming from DD! Maybe in some ways He is less free than man - because man is free not to love someone, whereas since love is God's very nature, perhaps He can do nothing but love - He and love just 'are'. eclipse:

How do you know when such love is given? and how does it manifest itself?

It's not something you go looking for imho. Besides what DD wrote, in a way it's kinda touching on abr's reply to WTwizard - the fact you are alive, that everything is here - the air you breathe, plants,animals, the warmth of the sun, the rain, the cry of a newborn baby... And before anyone jumps on me! Yes, this life we have sometimes sux - horribly in some cases. Does that come from God? Maybe in some cases, but I still hold my view that a lot of the suffering and pain in this world is self-inflicted ('self' = humanity). Then it becomes harder to see and experience God's love - but it doesn't go away, like the sun behind the clouds when we don't feel its warmth, it's still there...

LittleToe

Without adversity we stagnate. Reconciling a God of love with the pain and anguish we see in the world has always been the greatest challenge in theology. The nearest I can come to this is assuming that we have our own part to play as "Lord's of our own domain", with a final accounting taking place as to how well we've dispensed our duties. I would add to this that we also have a duty to spread "love" in the world, but would again consider whether or not this can be demanded of us.

Chris:I love your adaptation of the subject line

LittleToe

Emo:
While I accept your statement that "God is love", I have to ask why this would impinge on His ability to restrict the flow of that love down to a trickle, if He so wished?

Sad emo

Emo:While I accept your statement that "God is love", I have to ask why this would impinge on His ability to restrict the flow of that love down to a trickle, if He so wished?

I'm not sure that He could LT, but I'm still at the stage where I regard His love as constant. To restrict that love would be to restrict Himself, but He's everywhere at all times and unchanging isn't He? I think it was Philip Yancey who wrote that nothing we can do will make God love us any more or any less - that's the very nature of grace, and now my favourite line from one of my favourite songs - "the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair"!! Profound! At the moment, I'd still say it's we who either choose to restrict our view of His love to various degrees, or we have our view muddied by experience. When you look how the Books of Ecclesiastes and Job develop, from a view of utter hopelessness to recognising that God is still present in it, it's not God whose outlook or love changed, it was how the writers themselves changed their own.

Deputy Dog

Sad emo

Maybe in some ways He is less free than man - because man is free not to love someone, whereas since love is God's very nature, perhaps He can do nothing but love - He and love just 'are'.

Tell that to Esau! (Romans 9:13 "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.") Sorry, but what you are saying can't be defended by the scriptures. God has many attributes beside love. He pours out His wrath on the wicked, for just one example. If you are one of His children, His love is sweet. I'm glad I'm not a "vessel of wrath fitted to destruction" (Romans 9:22)

mouthy

Sorry DD I know he said he hated Esau.But why did he say that?because Esau had no love ...GOD IS LOVE! & he responds to HIS children the same way. He left it up to us to be one of his or not. I believe he does have favorites HIS OWN that call him Father, otherwise we are illegitimite children & who does our father become then? Just asking????

Got a lovely picture of me & you at PA !

quietlyleaving

Can God's love be demanded? If so where would grace come in to play?
Can your love be demanded?

I think God's love should be demanded!

Deputy Dog

Chris

When children are taught the concept of prayer, many, perhaps even most, first equate the concept to Santa Claus or a genie and anything they ask for will be granted. When that prayer is not answered, they learn, shrug it off and move forward.

I could not agree more. It is sad to think that some still hold this view as adults. Most people's faith never grows beyond it.

Deputy Dog

mouthy

But why did he say that?

To be biblical

Romans 9:11

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Remember, both brothers sinned.

GOD IS LOVE! & he responds to HIS children the same way.

The bible does not teach that Esau was one of His children. I have a problem believing all God can do is "love". I see that as being a form of idol worship.

Grace, I'm glad He has called us, and shown us mercy.

Sad emo

Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated

We'd need one of our Biblical linguists (Leolaia, Narkissos where are you?!) to confirm this but 'hated' may be a translational thing and it may have meant something less harsh such as 'preferred'? In the context, that would merely be a choice matter rather than an emotional state.

Compare it with when Jesus said 'he who doesn't hate (ie prefer) his mother or father over me is not worthy of me.'

Can God's love be demanded?

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