Remember, it takes at least two to fight or argue. If you don't feel up to the task of dealing with your mom and/or her posse of elders then don't. Your opinions are your own, you stated them to your mom and tell anyone who asks that's enough for now and to go away and you'll talk to them when you feel like it.
For someone who feels they have no backbone, you took a pretty courageous step in talking to your mom and telling her how you feel.
hardest conversation of my life
by metaspy 56 Replies latest jw experiences
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cyd0099
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AudeSapere
I pointed to the child molestations as my main reason for leaving.
I haven't read all the comments from others but wanted to focus on this statement alone.
Most normal people rightfully get upset about this subject. And we know it happens all the time throughout the world.
I think you need to more clearly define what exactly is upsetting you enough to actually leave. We on the board understand but are you able to clearly able to express your anger about this subject to your mother. What specifically about the abuse has caused you to leave?
Is it the simple fact that it occured? JW response will be that people are imperfect.
Is it the fact that it's not talked about and warnings are not given. JW will have a response for that too.
And those are not necessarily reasons to leave a lifelong religion.
Without a focused, unwaivering, rock-bottom THIS is why I cannot sit in the kingdom hall, they will continue to harrass you because your argument is too broad and because it is too broad, THEY will focus it for you - in their favor.
You need an absolute core-gripping reason why sitting in the kingdom hall any longer is an abomination to you. To sit there shows your acceptance of their methods and complicity.
At the end of the day, or end of our lives, if you believe in god, you - You alone - must answer to god for your decisions. Not your mom. Not your brother. Not the WTS. God knows what's in your heart better than you do. He knows why you cannot sit there with complicit acceptance.
When you can find the words for yourself and then speak them (over and over if necessary) to your mother and brother and any elder they send your way, you will find your backbone. You are standing up for what is right and chose to do the right thing which means avoiding evil. The WT methods of 'handling' these cases is evil and shows zero respect for children.
Children are sacred charges, not common property.
I wish you strength, determination and happiness.
-Aude Sapere (meaning: Dare to Know; Dare to Think for Yourself.)
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Guest with Questions
I haven't read all the responses yet either but want to say that you need to listen to your own gut. Something is telling you that something is not right, namely the sex abuse coverup. Study for yourself, read the bible yourself and you will draw your own conclusions. To turn your back on the Org does not automatically mean that you have turned your back on God but that is how they intrepret it.
This verse below helps me greatly. I hope it helps you. Don't argue with your mother, but remain loving. You could tell her you just need some space and time to reflect. I have personally found with my own mother that arguing doesn't help. She comes to me with her problems (an outsider), not her sisters. That says something about a loving org; that she can't seek comfort with them when she is going through a difficult time.
Hebr 13:5-6 Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you. So we say with confidence, The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?
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darkuncle29
You've made it this far, so you must have some vertebrae.
Good advice all around, but I want to focus on what Jgnat and a few others said along the line of disconecting your input from their output. Lady Lee also recomended a few years ago another book called Emotional Blackmail. Very good read, practical and applicable. I also found a book that was geared mainly towards physical abuse and violence, but the ideas were also IMO very useful for emotional manipulation and abuse, I needed that sort of info at one time as my mother was manipulative and just OMG. That book is called Never Be a Victim, that might be slightly wrong, but I can find it if you want the tittle, and its a short read too.
You could whatch Fight Club, Tyler Durden has a few gems. "This conversation...is OVER."
My own ma did this too: When I first started confronting her or not conecting with her manipulation, she went instantly from boo-hoo to Ggggrrrrrrr with eyes flashing and shit, when I rode that out, she finially let out a sigh and pouted. Through all of that, I had to be very resolute and almost cold. It has left scars on our relationship today, she doesn't see them, as the scars are on my end so to speak. Now we get along, but if she tries to even build up to her old tricks I let her know right away that "No. That's not how it works."
Good luck.
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IsaacJS2
By the time I discovered your post, there were already like 3 pages of messages. I didn't have time to read them all, but I did want to say something. Sorry if it's already been posted by someone else.
Anyway, I've dealt with a lot of controlling and manipulative people in my life. Including family sad to say. It does become a self esteem issue. I agree with everyone who said you should stand up to her. A lot of what I could say here advice-wise has already been said here and here. Some of those articles might be useful to you. I wrote them as advice for people dealing with pressure from JW relatives and "friends."
But I've had a lot of non-Witnesses put the screws to me as well. One of the best things I can think to say about this is that controlling, abusive people need you far more than you need them. Never forget that.
They need you to feel powerful, in control, loved (even if it's in a sick way) or to take the blame. My father, for instance, is just like his own mother. He needs to be able to hurt you and control you to feel that you love him. He craves it and he can't stop. It's sick, frankly. I could go into it more, but I don't want to make the post so long that no one will read it. Suffice to say that some people are just screwed up. Don't let them take you with them, no matter your obligation. If you can't deal with them, then sometimes you're only option is to cut them off. Sad but true.
No one has the right to crush you in order to feel better about themselves. No one. Not even family. Remember that and say it to yourself when you're in a confrontation like this. It can help you stand up taller when they force you to do so. Remember, it's about them - not you. Don't take the blame. You have rights too.
IsaacJ
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Guest with Questions
controlling, abusive people need you far more than you need them
Good thing to remember. -
R.Crusoe
GWQ you're almost correct - but it does mean selecting isolation for oneself for many which is a difficult base to start life from when all the ones grouping together are of a similar mind and working against you. In that respect they don't need you and the more you pull away the worse they view you. I recall some young brothers over 25yrs ago appearing to go off the rails and sort of prove the borg right by their actions. It's the solitary treatment you get handed out which is difficult for any human. The WTBTS say its showing love and you must come begging to be let back in. Families outside the WTBTS sometimes have the same mentality. An our way or go rule! And they won't give you respect till you earn it! LOVE will be interested in your thoughts and feelings and value and respect them. In fact that's usually what the isolated have been doing to others - respecting everything they say and want and giving it far too much consideration. It stops a person being themselves! It ruins their lives! And hey presto its their own fault cries everyone. They don't need you! But accepting you don't need people you've loved is the hard bit - where real loyalty dwindles into an occasional hello or less! It's that move in the heart which destroys some beautiful people. Ones who DGAS get along just fine!
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Junction-Guy
My advice is not to avoid your mom, every chance she calls you is an opportunity to tell her like it is. My Dad hasnt called me in almost a year, I almost pray that he will call me and tell me to go back to the hall, because that will be my opportunity to tell him all the lies I have discovered in his 'religion".
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Guest with Questions
Hi RCrusoe: I don' mean for metaspy to isolate from people. I don't think that would be a good idea. But just to take a breather from his mom especially, since she is the one that is putting so much pressure on him. As an outsider I may not appreciate this as much. Maybe for metaspy, and many x-witnesses, they don't have anyone else to go to other than the witnesses.
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veronica_mars
Man, sometimes it's hard for me to come to this site and read the stories... it hits way too close to home. I wish you all the luck in the world. My mom sounds a lot like your mom. I recently told my parents that I want out, and I even took the step to mail the letter in to disassociate myself. They still aren't listening to me... the elders refuse to read the letter to the congregation until I speak with them. When I spoke to an elder in my ex's hall (so I could verify that yes, he does indeed have "grounds for remarriage"- geez) he offered to send some of the local elders here to my house (I moved to another state) and all he needed was my address. I didn't give it to him, and really tried to convince him that THIS is what I want. I am dating a Jewish man, and yet- they STILL think that there is hope that I will come to "my senses"... Then I get a package in the mail from a friend with JW books and photos of us together... and a letter... *sigh* The next hit was a very sad email from my younger sister, who I adore, giving me the guilt trip ("I miss you. You are abandoning your family... Come to your senses...") It just does not seem to be getting easier. I think I will have to change my phone number, not open any packages I receive and pretty much start my life from scratch. I will build my OWN family... and know that I will NEVER do this to my child. I don't mean to hijack your thread, but please believe me when I say I understand what you are going through. It's so difficult. I will be thinking of you.