Why socialism will not work in America...

by zeroday 254 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  BurnTheShips

  Never be definite in debate unless you are sure of your facts.

  In 'Mein Kampf', as well as referring to the Jews as parasites, he also referred to Marxists, the bourgouise, and politicians opposed to National Socialism as parasites. In fact, it was one of his favorite metaphors.

  I do not see that he called the wealthy parasites. If you look at the comment (FlyingHighNow) I was responding to, that is what she was referring to. However, I appreciate your quote from Mein Kampf. Essentially, anyone opposed to Hitler was a "parasite".

  Burn
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  No he did not. He called the Jews parasites. But he did not use it in the context you seem to think he did.

  Oh no, you need to get busy looking at the propaganda he used to get people used to the idea that mentally ill were parasites and downs syndrome people and so on. Do more research.
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  I do not see that he called the wealthy parasites.

  No one said Hitler did.

  I am saying that the poor are viewed as parasites by some. It's the wealthy who really suck the middle class dry and use them up.
• 

  SixofNine

  Warren Buffet, the brilliant investor and one of the worlds richest men, is fond of making the point that his secretary (and in fact, every single person who works as an office employee of his) pays more in taxes than he does, as a percentage of income.

  He recognizes how unhealthy that is for a society. You should too.
• 

  BurnTheShips

  He recognizes how unhealthy that is for a society. You should too.

  I am all for abolishing the tax on wage income. If memory servers the automatic deduction of wage income taxes was commenced by that famous socialist, Franklin Delano Roosevely.

  Actually, I am for any cut, at any time, and for any reason.
• 

  journey-on

  Hey. I've got an idea.

  SixofNine, Hillary_Step, Sammielee, 5go, PrimateDave --- Throw in all your money together....hell, sell your assets you've worked for, too.....put it all in one big pot and divide it up evenly between yourselves. Would you be happy with that socialist arrangement? I'd bet one or two of you would be thrilled with that. The others just keep working your asses off. There will always be someone that can use your hard earned cash.

  Me? I'm going to keep mine and share it with who I want to share it with. I alread pay too much in taxes, but I still manage to support my favorite charities and give where I choose to give.
• 

  Merry Magdalene

  Personally, I think Malcolm X had it right and many of his observations still apply today with minor tweaking. Your words about France made me think of this, Burn:

  But since the French government and the British government and this government here, the United States, know that I have been almost fanatically stressing the importance of the Afro-American uniting with the African and working as a coalition, especially in areas which are of mutual benefit to all of us. And the governments in these different places were frightened because they know that the Black revolution that's taking place on the outside of their house --

  And I might point out right here that colonialism or imperialism, as the slave system of the West is called, is not something that's just confined to England or France or the United States. But the interests in this country are in cahoots with the interests in France and the interests in Britain. It's one huge complex or combine, and it creates what's known as not the American power structure or the French power structure, but it's an international power structure. And this international power structure is used to suppress the masses of dark-skinned people all over the world and exploit them of their natural resources

  ....

  The newly awakened people all over the world pose a problem for what's known as Western interests, which is imperialism, colonialism, racism, and all these other negative isms or vulturistic isms. Just as the external forces pose a grave threat, they can now see that the internal forces pose an even greater threat. But the internal forces pose an even greater threat only when they have properly analyzed the situation and know what the stakes really are.

  Just by advocating a coalition of Africans, Afro-Americans, Arabs, and Asians who live within the structure, it automatically has upset France, which is supposed to be one of the most liberal -- heh! -- countries on earth, and it made them expose their hand. England the same way. And I don't have to tell you about this country that we are living in now.

  http://www.malcolm-x.org/speeches/spc_021465.htm

  Personally, my desire is for an Islamic Economic Model.

  As a policy the Khilafah would make all essential utilities public property. Islam lays out three types of property; state, public and private. It designated any utility regarded as indispensable for the community, such that its absence would require people to search far and wide for it, as public property. It would then be publicly owned and the revenue generated would be administered for the benefit of all citizens.

  Thus water sources, forests of firewood, oil fields, electricity plants, motorways, rivers, seas, lakes, public canals, gulfs, straits, dams etc cannot be owned by individuals. Of course Islam would allow ownership if it were not indispensable for the community. This solution will have a unique effect, as it will ensure all will receive the basic requirements to live and not be at the will of monopolies or high prices. If the state had the revenue available to meet the needs for the foreseeable future there would then be no need to tax people. Zakat, a pillar of Islam is constant but is not a tax, more of a social insurance measure for certain categories of people. This would mean Muslims could say it was no longer possible to say there were two inevitable things in life; death and taxes.
  

  Islam does not have a concept of income tax, nor value added tax, nor excise duties, nor national insurance contributions and so forth. Rather Islam puts the emphasis of taxation on wealth rather than income.

  Besides the public properties Islam laid down a number of rules to ensure wealth continually circulates and penalized and in some cases taxed those who hoard their wealth. This is important because hoarding money and leaving wealth in an account to accumulate interest would in fact take money out of circulation. Islam has a whole host of rules which restrict the hoarding of wealth and promotes spending ensuring wealth distribution. Islam has land taxation where Khara,j which is a tax estimated on the quality of the land, and Ushri, which is a tax on the produce from the land. Islam allows the confiscation of land if it's unused for 3 years. This rule would effectively end the monopoly some families have in the third world who inherited huge lands from the departing colonialists, unless it's used productively which would aid wealth distribution.
  
  In Islam incentives not to spend are non existent, interest is forbidden and hoarding is taxed. Having no interest means there is no incentive to leave money in a bank account as it will not accumulate interest, but instead be taxed if it's held for a year. By not having taxation on income or spending a larger proportion of disposable income is free to be invested in physical goods, assets and items, which in turn will create jobs and fulfil any demand in the economy. Paper such as shares, bonds and debt as a form of commodity are non existent in Islam, the only types of investment are in real goods which ensures the economy continually generates wealth.

  These are a set of general polices the khilafah should follow to pull the Muslim world out of poverty. This system should then be presented to other African and Latin American countries who for decades have been immersed in poverty due to the US and IMF and Word Bank conditions. This system would also then be part of the global agenda when conferences and anniversaries aswell as millennium goals are discussed. It must be noted that many of the polices being presented to the poverty stricken world are from the same basis from which the problems emanated http://www.khilafah.com/kcom/the-khilafah/economy/only-the-khilafah-can-make-poverty-history.html

  ~Merry
• 

  Gregor

  I think, given your accusations of 'corruption' where socialist revolutions are concerned, you might give an example of a country where no corruption in government exists.

  Start with the US. ;)

  HS once again gives a clumsy example of disingenuous misdirection in his response. Of course corruption exists in all human institutions, but socialist revolutions are always built on the promise of making things "fair" for all, especially the oppressed masses. They then proceed to raise the gold standard of greed and corruption higher than the system they replaced. The masses stay where they have always been or, more likely, regress in their standard of living. Compare Cuba today to Cuba under Batista.
• 

  Gregor

  Parasites.

  Oh wow, that is exactly what Hitler promoted, the idea of parasites and producers. Flying High Now, did you have a comment or rebuttal on my observation or was this just a drive by insult?
• 

  jst2laws

  HS, Oh how you waste your time, but it is entertaining. So many proletarians who serve wine for the elite and sing to the band on the Haliburton/Walmart Titanic. Journey-on and others Is it possible, that capitalism has limits and faults that need to be addressed, or is it perfect as it is? If it is perfect, why do we already have Social Security into which you pay? Steve