@ sammieswife - thumbs up! ;)
Dave
Why socialism will not work in America...
by zeroday 254 Replies latest jw friends
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PrimateDave
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journey-on
if you are the guy who lost his job and now working for that 25%, you are of course never supposed to complain - even as you cash in your pension funds to live on, give up your life insurance and health insurance because you can't afford it and basically within a few years are living on fumes. If you complain, you'll be told that it's all your fault for not saving, or not going to school longer, or being in the wrong profession, or not working hard enough, not having more than one job, taking that day off to go camping, spending a dollar more for that coffee once a month or splurging on a fast food dinner once a year. When your pension is all gone because you got sick - the $200,000. that you had saved up for retirement but lost to hospital bills when your health insurance got cancelled when the corporation ended your 2,000 jobs - well that sucks but it's your fault for that too. Then you get to hear what a drain on society you are because now you have to rely on a government program like social security or medicare. Who want's sick or old people around anyway..what do you think this is??? A socialist country??? sammieswife.
So what is YOUR solution? There are so many government programs right now to help the disabled and disadvantaged. I know of instances right now where single moms (one has four kids) are able to go to school on government grants and have their apartment paid for by taxpayers. I'M ALL FOR THAT. These women are trying and doing SOMETHING to improve their situation.
I know another guy going to med school on government money! Of course, he's in the Navy and taking advantage of all the programs and services our MILITARY has to offer. I'M ALL FOR THAT!
I believe you are exaggerating somewhat and making it seem like it's hopeless with no where to turn when you are faced with the situations you described above. YES....there will always be situations beyond
our control that kick us in the ass....loss of jobs, health, homes, etc. But there are government programs and private charitable organizations that CAN AND DO HELP. Of course, one has to get off their behinds and find them and apply for them. Some folks are too lazy to even do that. But others are out there picking themselves up by the good ole American bootstraps and making lemonade out of their lemons.
Corporations have a RIGHT to make money and do what is good for their bottom line. There are many many corporations that contribute mightily to charitable causes --- BUT FOR SOME PEOPLE, IT WILL NEVER BE ENOUGH. They want an even distribution of wealth, and that is just plain and simply WRONG!
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journey-on
They want an even distribution of wealth, and that is just plain and simply WRONG!
Let me rephrase that: "It is just plain and simply WRONG for Americans."
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hillary_step
Journey On,
HS -- you are a condescending bs artist. As if the above statement makes you some kind of political ideology EXPERT. I call BULLSH*T.
Call it what you may, it does not make what you say any more accurate. I suggested that you lacked expereince of living under other governments based on your comments above and because you are unwilling, or unable to answer the points that I make.
One of the reasons I don't like to get into debate with you is because YOU ALWAYS resort to condescending name calling and personal insults. I can't stand that kind of low balling and won't waste my intellect on it.
No, the reason that you are unwilling to give a point by point rebuttal on the issues that I raise is because your 'intellect' is unable to deal with them. I say this based not just on your performance in debate today, but in your history of performance. You are quite welcome to analyse my comments and deal with them as an adult, then you will be treated as such. Until then, live with my 'condescension' for it is all your posts are worth so far.
Burn,
I find it informational that HS will not interact with my comments.
What you should find informational is that HS does not sit wide-eyed at his computer all day, but actually goes for lunch occasionally. Do not think your comments have any validity merely on the grounds that you are ignored. On that basis one could conclude that you are a genius, which obviously is not an accurate statement.
Now, please present the comments that you feel that I have ignored. I can see none that actually focus on the thread at hand but little drive-by comments more suited to the adolescent than a grown man trying to debate.
Perhaps you should write more clearly so we don't have to be so careful.
Perhaps you might give an example of where I have not been clear in my posts on this thread my little intellectual Pop-Tart.;) I am eager to see this. Of course if you lack reading comprehension, what can I do about it. But feel free to prove your comment with EVIDENCE. You know, that little thing that seperates opinion from fact.
Cheers - HS
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journey-on
See? There's my point.
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stillajwexelder
Socialism taken to extremes is communism by any other name. Even the Chinese are slowly adopting capitalism. There was a brilliant New York Times article my father sent me about 8 weeks ago. It showed how all the world is slowly getting better not worse as many fear mongers try and say. He opined that this was all due to capitalism
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FlyingHighNow
I'm sure when Hil or Barack gets in that will all change and we can join the Eurpoean Union and slowly get flushed in the sewer with them...
Honey, we've been in the sewer long before them. Just go back to the late 70's and early 80's to watch our yuppie, republican descent into hell.
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hillary_step
OICU8it2,
Hey HS, the US is a republic, not a democracy. That word is not even in the Constitution
Of course I know that, but your nation does not! That is why your President is intent on exporting "democracy" (his words not mine) to the rest of the world starting in the Middle East, and why the US is seen as the bastion of world democracy, in its imagination at least.
Take your argument to the extreme. The Soviet Union stands as an example of socialism.
You are quite wrong and have made a very common mistake, that of failing to see the difference between Socialism and Communism. They were different to begin with, and have certainly evolved along very different paths. One can argue, and with success that neither grass roots Socialism nor Communism as encapsulated in its ideals, has ever been used in anything other than name. This is why comparisons, and the arguments hung upon them, are always flawed. "It did not work in Russia or Cuba" etc. Social Democracy has worked in many parts of the world, but of course, these examples are ignored, and this thread is a good example of this.
Simply put, I agree with Winston Churchill when he said that good government should 'provide the ladder for the people to climb, and a net should the people fall'. This is at the core of Democratic Socialism. It does not rely on the 'survival of the fittest' in society, but rewards the climbers and cares for those less fortunate.
Cheers - HS
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journey-on
HS said:
I measure the worth of a nation by the way it cares for its most unfortunate citizens, not by the 65 million dollar per annum bonuses it pays to it stock market gurus. Such disgusting excesses should pull at the justice strings of the system.
Tony Blair said when he was Prime Minister:
In case we find ourselves starting to believe all the Anti-American
sentiment and negativity, we should remember England 's Prime Minister
Tony Blair 's words during a recent interview. When asked by one of his
Parliament members why he believes so much in America , he said: "A
simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want
in... And how many want out."If America was a socialist country, I don't think people would be beating the door down to get to the land of opportunity!
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hillary_step
Journey On,
See? There's my point.
...and your continuing folly of engaging me in debate without providing any evidence whatsoever for your opinions makes my point. Either step up and join in this debate with views that actually make sense, or go away. In short, put up or shut up and for God's sake stop whining like a little child. HS