Come on people. You're giving HS too much attention, and he's going to get a swelled head.
W
Does Debating Have to Be Abusive - To Be Effective ?
by flipper 143 Replies latest jw friends
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Brother Apostate
lol...a complete accident I assure you, as accidental as BA's birth in fact. ;)
HS
Sheesh, what a plonker!!
"O Lord, may I never want to look good. O Jesus, may I always read it all: out loud and the very way it should be. May I never look at the other findings until I have come to my own true conclusions: May I care for the least of the young: and become aware of the one poem that each may have written; may I be aware of what each thing is, delighted with form, and wary of the false comparison; may I never use the word "brilliant." — Theodore Roethke
BA- Lol at poor hiney_spider, too caught up in the adulation of his obsequious flatulence inhalers to know when he's been exposed as the poser, the charlatan, the hack that he is...
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seven006
I can’t believe I read the whole thing.
Getting back to the original question, does debating have to be abusive to be effective? Well… that all depends on who you are trying to effect.
On a Disneyland adventure ride discussion board for kids under the age of ten. No. Discussions using words, terms, and thoughts like fun, exciting, wow, and really really scary should suffice.
On a DB like JWD, given the multilevel aspects of almost everything. Abusiveness is as much a part of it’s discussion dynamics and makes it work as the kissy huggyness is. It is what gives it balance.
Balance of it’s diversity is what has kept JWD growing during it’s many ups, downs agreements, and disagreements as well as its knock down kick-ass flame wars. It’s not because of the “old posters” or because of it’s “new posters” (as alluded to on your other thread). It is because of it’s uncanny ability to balance itself out in spite of it’s constant changing dynamics.
The nicey nice “big hug Jesus loves yous ” as well as the “get a clue dip shits” are what gives it balance and keeps it both informative and entertaining.
Once a person can “honestly” identify within “them self” what their priority is in coming here and then posting here. Then and only then will they be able identify what it is that keeps them here in spite of what they may like or don’t like. An individual’s style of posting is just that, a style. It’s not always fact or fiction to anyone else but them self and in reality doesn’t make anyone bleed or expire.
Whether it’s to get or give support, this place is about support, validation, and a sense of community/family. Those are the things that were taken from all of us in such a deceitful manner by a tax-exempt very profitable printing company.
Some may feel a cuss word is abusive and burns their mind’s delicate little ears while others may feel a prayer makes them want to puke creamed corn and carrot chunks. In my opinion they balance each other out very nicely. It is up to each person’s own level of security or insecurity to decide which style they choose to keep reading and which one is worth or not worth commenting on. In most cases it is familiarity with a posters style that drives a thread more than it’s topic.
This place needs the cutting rapier whit of guys like HS and Farkel (two of my favorite smart-asses) just as much as it needs the “can’t we all just get along, peace, love and all that hippie stuff” like Flipper.
JWD has always had, and always will have, both sets of personalities. It is what makes it work the way it does.
So in answer to your original question Mr. Flipper. Yes and no.
Dave -
VoidEater
What do you folks think causes this in people at times ?
Frustration and self-absorption.
Does debating have to be abusive to be effective ?
Nope. Just the opposite. I do my best to not even read certain posters content, let alone respond, because their abusive habits are annoying, distracting, or boring in turns.
Define Abusive.
ex: "Screw you." "Shut up and take it." Name calling.
Ultimately, debating an issue usually becomes antagonistic.
Doesn't have to. But at certain (chronological or mental) age levels, that's what most resort to.
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minimus
As usual Dave, an excellent insightful post!
We need ALL the types here to make this place interesting!
Think if American Idol had no Simon Cowell. Or Paula Abdul. (I never understood Randy's role). You need the lousy singers, the crazy ones and the good ones too! Just like this place.
And Dave, you are a fine cross between Simon and Paula. Yeah, that's it!
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Happy Harvester
Does debating have to be abusive to be effective?
No.
Does the person who yells the loudest win? Not necessarily.
But the media is about entertainment, (as you mentioned), and much "entertainment" is abusive, attention-getting, and loud, in more ways than one. In that context, "winning" involves who gets the highest ratings - often received from an under-aged crowd, or people who have been developmentally disabled by constant addiction to entertainment, violent video gaming, and inattention to the proprietary details of real day-to-day human interactions.
There may also be a lack of good role-models for proper debating.
I guess the only solution is to attempt to be good role models ourselves. Stopping drinking has helped me a lot in that regard. I wonder if there are others here who have learned to tone down their aggression, or who have recognized it and want to change their approach.
It would be interesting to participate in a support group geared toward more civility in debating, both online and in general. I find that my own approach tends to be much more genial in person than it is online. I have to work to avoid being aggressive when I come across arguments that are vapid, ignorant, stupid, and/or mean-spirited. It is a challenge, I suspect, for most people not to "return evil for evil."
Learning to function non-abusively is just part of growing up and most of us could use a little help with it now and then, and some of us need those gentle reminders about civility more often than not.
Good luck, flippers! Good discussion topic.
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jaguarbass
So, what are your thoughts ? Does debating have to be abusive to be effective ? What is your take on this ? Are there ways we can effectively get our points across and still leave the dignity of our fellow posters intact ? What ideas do you have in posting viewpoints without causing an all out battle or being abusive - and yet still being assertive enough to get your points across in a dignified, respectful manner ? As always I look forward to all your thoughts ! Peace out, Mr. & Mrs. Flipper
I think once the discussion becomes abusive, the one doing the abuse is throwing in the towel. He is admitting he has lost.
If there are no facts, then its hardly worth debating and if its a matter of opinion, opinions are like noses every one has one and most are different.
It there are facts, the facts should speak for themselves.
On a relgion discussion board like this, its important to keep the facts seperated from the opinion.
There can be facts about the Wactower societies behavior and actions.
Then most things written in the bible are subject to interpration which makes them fall into the area of opinions.
If your arguing about your opinion, bible matters and prophecy and interpretation, I think your on pretty thin ice.
If you want to talk about the society predicting the end of the world in 1975 and telling young people not to go to college or get an education. I would say thats a fact.
So if you have facts present them, and if you want to verify them give references. After that people can pick and choose.
People see what they want to see and they pick data to justify their beliefs.
Someone who wants to believe the Wactower society is Gods instrument and the way to eternal salvation will disregard concrete facts proving otherwise.
Until a little light goes on in their head, which corresponds with the proverb.
When the student is ready the teacher appears.
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flipper
I appreciate all the fine comments on here and insights- now I shall reply individually to you.
LOUBELLE- I agree with you. Be respectful ; if they are not- I change the channel to another thread.
PENNY 2- Yes. Only kindness matters.
UNCONFUSED- I agree with you- If you can say it to a persons face - you can say it here.
SNOWBIRD- Sylvia - I agree we all should remember the manners our mom's all taught us ! Maybe some here didn't have mothers !
R. CRUSOE- I love your analytical, off the wall, crazy posts ! Bro- You bring new meaning to the word complicated and abstract brilliance ! I mean that as a compliment !
COFFEE BLACK- I admire your good heart and standing up on behalf of others rights ! I love your spunk and stamina ! You are cool !
EX-NJ-JW- I agree. You made a great post ! I agree with you - some posters just surface to get into a good fight, then go back down like a submarine ! In regards that we all have smelly a$$holes- I'll have you know I bathe quite frequently my dear !
OUTLAW- Thanks bud for the nice words ! I try to stay positive all the time- not much gets me down for long ! I'm a pretty even -keeled guy ! Don't take things too seriously - I'm pretty secure with myself .
MINIMUS- Thanks for your great sense of logic and reason. You are one of the posters I respect the most on this board guy ! I appreciate your fairness and reasoning ability too ! Peace.
DARK UNCLE 29- I agree. Give the newbies the benefit of the doubt . But I agree a good balance of polite behavior and funny sarcasm is good. But a person has to know when and how to use it !
BURN the SHIPS- Enjoyed your post.
FRANKIESPEAKIN- " Hit me with your Best Shot " ! Wasn't that a Pat Benatar song in the 80's ?
BROTHER APOSTATE- I love your humor man ! Awesome !
JOURNEY ON- I think everybody adds a flavor on this board. But I'd like to think we are all mature adults and can be balanced in curtailing our explosiveness as well.
LLBH- I agree abusive and unkind action isn't productive. I love a good robust civil debate though !
ERYNW- Hey sweet lady ! How are you sis ! Good post. I agree abuse should never be tolerated. Any time. Thanks. Peace.
ABANDONED- I agree with you. Ain't ErynW sweet ?
WEDNESDAY- I agree. I'm not always right as well. I have learned I don't always have to be right !
BIZZY BEE- I'm glad we have the mods here ! At least someone will throw in a life preserver if things get too crazy !
STILLA- I agree with you.
CHALOM- Nice scriptural quote ! I think we have seen quite a bit of dazzle and big words on this thread
LOL!
MYELAINE- I agree. No one needs to be arrogant.
FINALLY FREE- Ditto !
SEVEN 006- Thanks for the very balanced and insightful post ! Probably one of the best on this entire thread I might say ! Thanks for the good viewpoints ! A voice of reason in the wind . By the way my " hippie " wife and I need to go check out our stash of grass crop out on our back 40 ! LOL! That is really funny ! I do believe in flower power from the 60's but don't consider myself a hippy ! Funny stuff ! I've never even smoked pot ! Hilarious ! We do live in the Northern Sierra mountains though ! So I guess we are hippies from that standpoint ! LOL!
VOIDEATER- I agree. Nothing ever needs to turn into name calling ! Gawd, I love your Avatar ! Love mountain lions. Peace.
HAPPY HARVESTER- I agree with you. I think the media does have a lot to do with influencing people to be mean spirited. I think people need to grow up too !
JAGUAR BASS- Good thoughts. I also think when a person becomes abusive on a thread - they have already lost. No sense in discussing any more !
HILLARY STEP- I have no more comments to you my friend. I agree that we disagree - I'll leave it at that -
Gregor
The key word "abusive" continues to be very subjective in definition. In fact, I don't think it can be pinned down in this format unless it is so extreme that the mods. would shut it down anyway. Much ado about nothing.
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flipper
GREGOR- It is agreed that " abusive " is a very subjective word . What some people look at as abuse others consider normal. I guess I would align myself with the terms the mods put out in their posting guidelines as what I follow. I mean the use of the word " abuse " can be misused . As a teenager in the early 70's I remember being counseled by a Watchtower entitled, " Overcoming Self Abuse " ! But what they were condemning as self abuse - I quite actually found very pleasurable . Shows you how the word can be misused - sorry for the visual Gregor ! LOL! Peace out, Mr. Flipper