"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character...

by digderidoo 261 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  hillary_step

  Snowbird,

  Numbers 14:41-43 But Moses said, "Why are you crossing God 's command yet again? This won't work. Don't attack. God isn't with you in this—you'll be beaten badly by yourenemies. The Amalekites and Canaanites are ready for you and they'll kill you. Because you have left off obediently following God , God is not going to be with you in this."

  44 -45 But they went anyway; recklessly and arrogantly they climbed to the high hill country. But the Chest of the Covenant and Moses didn't budge from the camp. The Amalekites and the Canaanites who lived in the hill country came out of the hills and attacked and beat them, a rout all the way down to Hormah.

  I have already dealt witb this in my post above.

  The Israelites were told by God that they would be taking over the land of Canaan and that God would make sure they conquered the Cannanites. God has a score to settle with the Canaanaites as I noted above, he is like that. Vengeful and prejudiced. The problem is that the Israelites decided to start the Holocaust without him and he got angry and made sure their noses were bloodied. read your Bible Snowbird. The Israelites attacked in an unprovoked campaign the Southern forces of the Caananites. The Cannanites fought back and beat them.

  Later, in His good time, God started a six year Holocaust, which according to the Bible led to the virtually complete destruction of the Caananites. This is because the Israelites waited for God to join them in the genocide and did not go it alone ths time. In this, God did a much better job that Hitler.

  This is all that I stated above. You have not read your Bible carefully Snowbird.

  HS
• 

  snowbird

  The problem is that the Israelites decided to start the Holocaust without him

  Meaning that God didn't sanction this attack, right?

  Why don't we put this to rest and do something else. May I suggest this:

  http://my.funtrivia.com/tournament/JWD-Trivia-Quiz-75350.html

  Sylvia
• 

  hillary_step

  Snowbird,

  Meaning that God didn't sanction this attack, right?

  He wanted to set the timetable for the Holocaust himself and got upset when the Israelites beat him to it. He acted like a spoiled child as he wanted to be the one to say, 'Ready, Steady, Kill' and got into a big sulk when he was pre-empted however.

  He had already made known, remember, that they were going to commit genocide, he just wanted to be in charge.

  HS
• 

  cognizant dissident

  God: OK, Israelites! Ready! Set!... Hey! I never said GO yet! OK, now I'm really getting angry!
• 

  inkling

  The city and everything in it is under a holy curse and offered up to God.

  Ok, this is a debate stopper.

  When I ask what Jericho did to provoke Israel, you say their provocation was getting themselves holy-cursed by Israel's God,
  this conversation has nowhere to go.

  As long as your fallback position is "God told us they should die" I have no argument that will have any effect
  on your position. Just be aware that IS your position.

  They did nothing tangible, or militant, or antisocial, or invasive to the Israelites.

  They deserved to die because they did something in the privacy of their own homes in their own land that pissed off Jehovah into a blood frenzy.

  [inkling]
• 

  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  The city and everything in it is under a holy curse and offered up to God .

  Like I said, they provoked God simply by being alive. God sanctioned this attack without provocation. I sure don't see that he gave Jericho any options. If he had given them a chance, they probably would have served him more faithfully than the Israelites later did. He didn't give them an option to relocate. Maybe they should have all been whores for Israelite spies?

  Anybody besides Snowbird want to take a shot at this or my other posts on this subject?

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/151311/2768280/post.ashx#2768280

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/151311/2768816/post.ashx#2768816

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/151311/2769313/post.ashx#2769313

  I'm just saying that Jehovah of the Old Testment is a most unpleasant character. If I'd lived at the time and been an obedient Moses-following, Canaanite-killing, virgin serial rapist, I might have had a really good life worshipping Jehovah in them good ole days. But I was born at a time when I became a JW-GB-following, door knocking, secular education avoiding, Armageddon focused, marriage and family postponing, Bethelite. Now I'm bitter.

  I admire your faith Sylvia. My lack of faith probably sounds sad to you. But, it was once my job to try to defend Jehovah's conduct in the Hebrew Scriptures. It became increasingly clear that Jehovah has a habit of killing even his faithful servants on a whim...

  (Zephaniah 2:3) Seek righteousness, seek meekness. Probably YOU may be concealed in the day of Jehovah’s anger.

  Conversely, even if you seek righteousness and meekness you probably may not be concealed when Jehovah starts his next killing rampage.

  You think the Universal Sovereign would be a lot better at Public Relations. Are you up for hire for PR, Sylvia? I'll warn you that the pay is crapola, but the empty promises are awesome!
• 

  quietlyleaving

  Hey HS

  I still consider that snowbird's argument is logical as is yours but you are arguing that we dismiss snowbird's argument as invalid and that is what I have a problem with. You have not shown that snowbird's argument is invalid.

  And anyway snowbird isn't arguing that she would support Jehovah if he behaved like that today because she has come to know him as Jesus Christ. Snowbird isn't trying to convince others of her position either she is simply defending her logical beliefs.

  My last pronouncement on this - only just dipping my toe into philosophical thought and enjoying it very much. Please correct me if I'm wrong though as you haven't as yet to my satifaction.
• 

  Caedes

  2. I believe the God of the OT is the same as the God of the NT, Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah.

  3. I believe God is righteous in all His ways even if we don't understand those ways.

  4. I can accept God-sanctioned genocide because of statement #3.

  5. I can accept God-sanctioned slavery because of statement #3.

  6. I can accept all the laws given to the nation of Israel because of statement #3.

  Snowbird,

  If your god personally asked you to commit murder, would you do so?

  Assuming that you were as sure that it was god asking you as you are of your faith. Let's also assume that it was someone guilty of immorality, adultery for instance.
• 

  destructo-girl

  I was just struck my what this reminds me of....
  An abused wife defending her alcoholic husband

  I've been thinking this too, throughout reading this thread.
  I think all the logical arguements and bible background and interpretations of whether the Canaanites deserved it or not mean nothing.
  It's all about love.
  Like cog says:

  It won't matter if God himself rapes and murders every single man, woman, child and animal on this planet and tortures them all for eternity.

  I think someone deeply in love can justify anything, and someone's love of God can go deeper than any other love. People still kill for God today.

  To quote one of my favourite people "We can love quite well. If not wisely."
• 

  Eyes Open

  Let me state my position clearly:

  1. I believe in the God of the OT and that the Bible is His inspired record.

  2. I believe the God of the OT is the same as the God of the NT, Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah.

  3. I believe God is righteous in all His ways even if we don't understand those ways.

  4. I can accept God-sanctioned genocide because of statement #3.

  5. I can accept God-sanctioned slavery because of statement #3.

  6. I can accept all the laws given to the nation of Israel because of statement #3.

  7. I can't judge God as being unjust because my understanding is finite whereas His is infinite.

  8. I have faith that our questions will be answered and our doubts put to rest when He comes again.

  Thanks for clarifying that, snowbird. I took the same position previously, apart from number 2 and possibly number 8.

  As you hold the belief described in number 1, would you be able to answer my previous question?

  Those of you who believe the entire old testament is inspired by God and an accurate record of what happened to his people which is to be taken literally: how do you decide which of the two flood stories you believe?

  The flood is an example of mass extermination by Yahweh and some of the history discussed in this thread is presented as being a result of what comes right after the two intertwined accounts of the flood, so it seems appropriate to get your input on this.