"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character...

by digderidoo 261 Replies latest jw friends

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    My internet access has been down all weekend so I haven't had a chance to respond before now. I am frankly amazed that the outrage with which snowbird denied that she condoned the acts ascribed to God in the Old Testament was matched only by the fervour with which she defended those same actions.

    For example:

    I accept the fact that the Israelites were instructed by God to wipe out the nations of Canaan, but my condoning of either's actions doesn't enter the picture because I have faith (based on the prior and subsequent acts of God) that it was the right and just thing to do.

    Accepting that something "was the right and just thing to do" is the same as condoning it. By saying that the genocide and child rape ordered by her god was "right and just" snowbird is not only condoning those actions but endorsing them.

    Further, she "see[s] nothing barbarous" in a young girl being stoned to death on suspicion of premarital sex, she sees a rape victim being forced to marry her rapist as a way of keeping people "morally upright" and "restoring [the victim's] dignity", and so on.

    Her eight statements of her position make it quite clear that she considers these records to be true and accurate accounts of the actions of a righteous god.

    snowbird, you may consider me arrogant and crass for refusing to allow you to have it both ways, but if you continue to condone, endorse or defend the brutal actions of the Old Testament god, I will continue to point out that you are doing so. I do not think I have been in any way abusive or that I have attacked you but you are right that my issue is personal. It is a condemnation of the person (you) who has defended and continues to defend the most brutal savage actions of a barbaric Bronze Age tribe and their bloodthirsty war god. I find such behaviour disgusting and grossly immoral and I will not stop saying so.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    As you hold the belief described in number 1, would you be able to answer my previous question?

    Those of you who believe the entire old testament is inspired by God and an accurate record of what happened to his people which is to be taken literally: how do you decide which of the two flood stories you believe?

    The flood is an example of mass extermination by Yahweh and some of the history discussed in this thread is presented as being a result of what comes right after the two intertwined accounts of the flood , so it seems appropriate to get your input on this.

    Eyes Open, I've just got around to reading the info. It is obvious that the compiler of each account had an agenda. My take is that the J account was primarily for the Hebrews, and the P account for the rest of the world. What is your take?

    I think you may find this account from the Book of Jasher quite interesting:

    http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/jasher/6.htm

    Sylvia

  • snowbird
  • inkling
    inkling

    QL,

    You have not shown that snowbird's argument is invalid.

    I think we have. As FD said:

    Accepting that something "was the right and just thing to do" is the same as condoning it.

    Snowbird, in saying that everything Jehovah does in the right thing to do, but then
    saying she dosnt actually CONDONE the things he did is a perfect example of orwellian
    "double-think": Holding two conflicting opinions in your head symultaniously and pretending
    that they do not conflict.

    If you disagree with this, you need to try and restate snowbirds "logical" opinion in a valid form, becuase she dosn't seem to be doing so.

    I have a feeling that you (like AlmostAtheist) Is giving more credit of rationality than is deserved... take this comment:

    And anyway snowbird isn't arguing that she would support Jehovah if he behaved like that today because she has come to know him as Jesus Christ.

    I'm not sure snowbird would agree with this. This makes it seem like God is "growing"
    and becoming "more enlightend" and less savage as time passes and he grows up...

    This growth would be impossible for the Perfect God of christian theology

    [inkling]

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Way I see it, if the good Lord wants to whack somebody, who am I to judge?

    Burn

  • quietlyleaving
    quietlyleaving

    that's what I'm saying inkling

    from my perspective snowbird has taken charge of her God.

    edt: sorry snowbird but that's the way it seems to me.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    I'm not sure snowbird would agree with this. This makes it seem like God is "growing"
    and becoming "more enlightend" and less savage as time passes and he grows up...

    This growth would be impossible for the Perfect God of christian theology

    The third chapter of Ecclesiastes tells us there's a time for war and a time for peace.

    Because the OT God fought physically, and the NT God didn't, doesn't mean God changed. TIMES changed.

    That same God is going to fight again as per Revelation 19.

    Sylvia

  • inkling
    inkling
    from my perspective snowbird has taken charge of her God.

    hmm, i'm not sure I understand what you mean be this...

    [ink]

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    TIMES changed.

    Seeing that he is above and outside the timeline that binds us mere mortals, being unbounded by time, "change" as we would know it has no meaning. Just my 2C

  • inkling
    inkling
    Seeing that he is above and outside the timeline that binds us mere mortals, being unbounded by time, "change" as we would know it has no meaning.

    I think this is a interesting point, but seeing as though it can be argued on philosophic grounds, I'm not sure has much power in this argument...

    [inkling]

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