Thinking of becoming a Witness again and my reasons for doing so :(

by reniaa 383 Replies latest jw experiences

Sirona

Well Reniaa
I am going to be brutally honest with you.
You have told us that you have examined the scientific evidence against a global flood (on the atheist forum). You have told us that you still accept the bible's version, that God once destroyed 99% of mankind by using a global flood. This is the ultimate in intellectual dishonesty and lack of education. To simply give us the old JW line of "scientists aren't perfect therefore I can ignore any scientific evidence I want" is, quite frankly, just plain stupidity.
You even go so far as to express the opinion that you don't really mind if God decides to destroy 99% of humankind. This expresses that you still hold the JW view of "the world" that we are all pretty much "less than" everyone else and deserve to die.
The next point I will make I feel I have to - Leolaia is infinately more knowledgeable than you are on scripture. She gave you actual SOURCES which PROVE her point regarding the stake / cross thing. She said that the stake was used, but that the cross then developed into use. What did you do? You quote the NWT! ROFL! I mean I'm actually astounded at how arrogant you can be in the face of others who ACTUALLY know more than you!
I can't believe you've been out of the JWs for 10 years.
All you do is spout their crap, and when people point out the actual facts, you ignore it!
You are VERY WELL SUITED to be a Jehovahs Witness. You can ignore logical arguments, you can ignore science, you can ignore people who are biblical scholars, you can shut down your emotions and think its OK for the rest of us to be killed.....I'd say you 'd make a perfect Jehovahs Witness.
Go and waste your entire life on that cult and don't come crying to us when you look back on your life and realise you wasted it on a publishing company from New York.
Sirona
reniaa

In one sense r;crusoe I agree with you a part of me still hopes to find a soul mate even after all my mistakes lol i say all there were only 3, but they have made me very cynical and bitter at myself and the world (I can't think of a better word to put here than 'World')
Because you say JW's are taking away our "freedom" but isn't the socalled "freedom" of the world an illusion too? (this is were I have been in a very dark place my councilor is helping me not be so negative about people) The world has it's own rules even if the rules are "Do what you want! treat people as you want! as long as it's not illegal it doesn't matter" you no longer have a choice about sex with men I find, they tend to see it as a right to "Try before they buy" attitude to commitment, and if i'm then left holding the baby (literatually in my case) with only child support to try and get from him, is it really my fault? surely some blame can be placed at this "free and easy worlds" door?

Sirona

The world has it's own rules even if the rules are "Do what you want! treat people as you want! as long as it's not illegal it doesn't matter"

Yes because that is what everyone in the world thinks! Noone in the world has any morals!

Do you think your "golden rule" is unique?

Bahá'í Faith:

	"Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee, and say not that which thou doest not." "Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself." Baha'u'llah
	"And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou for thy neighbour that which thou choosest for thyself." Epistle to the Son of the Wolf

Brahmanism: "This is the sum of Dharma [duty]: Do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you". Mahabharata, 5:1517 "

Buddhism:

	"...a state that is not pleasing or delightful to me, how could I inflict that upon another?" Samyutta NIkaya v. 353
	Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful." Udana-Varga 5:18

Christianity:

	"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." Matthew 7:12, King James Version.
	"And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise." Luke 6:31, King James Version.
	"...and don't do what you hate...", Gospel of Thomas 6. The Gospel of Thomas is one of about 40 gospels that were widely accepted among early Christians, but which never made it into the Christian Scriptures (New Testament).

Confucianism:

	"Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you" Analects 15:23
	"Tse-kung asked, 'Is there one word that can serve as a principle of conduct for life?' Confucius replied, 'It is the word 'shu' -- reciprocity. Do not impose on others what you yourself do not desire.'" Doctrine of the Mean 13.3
	"Try your best to treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, and you will find that this is the shortest way to benevolence." Mencius VII.A.4

Ancient Egyptian:

"Do for one who may do for you, that you may cause him thus to do." The Tale of the Eloquent Peasant, 109 - 110 Translated by R.B. Parkinson. The original dates to 1970 to 1640 BCE and may be the earliest version ever written. 3

Hinduism:

This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you. Mahabharata 5:1517

Humanism:

	"(5) Humanists acknowledge human interdependence, the need for mutual respect and the kinship of all humanity."
	"(11) Humanists affirm that individual and social problems can only be resolved by means of human reason, intelligent effort, critical thinking joined with compassion and a spirit of empathy for all living beings. " 4
	"Don't do things you wouldn't want to have done to you, British Humanist Society. 3

Islam: "None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself." Number 13 of Imam "Al-Nawawi's Forty Hadiths." 5

Jainism:

	"Therefore, neither does he [a sage] cause violence to others nor does he make others do so." Acarangasutra 5.101-2.
	"In happiness and suffering, in joy and grief, we should regard all creatures as we regard our own self." Lord Mahavira, 24th Tirthankara
	"A man should wander about treating all creatures as he himself would be treated. "Sutrakritanga 1.11.33

Judaism:

	"...thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.", Leviticus 19:18
	"What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man. This is the law: all the rest is commentary." Talmud, Shabbat 31a.
	"And what you hate, do not do to any one." Tobit 4:15 6

Native American Spirituality:

	"Respect for all life is the foundation." The Great Law of Peace.
	"All things are our relatives; what we do to everything, we do to ourselves. All is really One." Black Elk
	"Do not wrong or hate your neighbor. For it is not he who you wrong, but yourself." Pima proverb.

Roman Pagan Religion: "The law imprinted on the hearts of all men is to love the members of society as themselves."

Shinto:

	"The heart of the person before you is a mirror. See there your own form"
	"Be charitable to all beings, love is the representative of God." Ko-ji-ki Hachiman Kasuga

Sikhism:

	Compassion-mercy and religion are the support of the entire world". Japji Sahib
	"Don't create enmity with anyone as God is within everyone." Guru Arjan Devji 259
	"No one is my enemy, none a stranger and everyone is my friend." Guru Arjan Dev : AG 1299

Sufism: "The basis of Sufism is consideration of the hearts and feelings of others. If you haven't the will to gladden someone's heart, then at least beware lest you hurt someone's heart, for on our path, no sin exists but this." Dr. Javad Nurbakhsh, Master of the Nimatullahi Sufi Order.

Taoism:

	"Regard your neighbor's gain as your own gain, and your neighbor's loss as your own loss." T'ai Shang Kan Ying P'ien.
	"The sage has no interest of his own, but takes the interests of the people as his own. He is kind to the kind; he is also kind to the unkind: for Virtue is kind. He is faithful to the faithful; he is also faithful to the unfaithful: for Virtue is faithful." Tao Teh Ching, Chapter 49

Unitarian:

"The inherent worth and dignity of every person;"
"Justice, equity and compassion in human relations.... "
"The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;"
"We affirm and promote respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part." Unitarian principles. 7,8

Wicca: "An it harm no one, do what thou wilt" (i.e. do what ever you will, as long as it harms nobody, including yourself). One's will is to be carefully thought out in advance of action. This is called the Wiccan Rede

Yoruba: (Nigeria): "One going to take a pointed stick to pinch a baby bird should first try it on himself to feel how it hurts."

Zoroastrianism:

"That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another whatsoever is not good for itself". Dadistan-i-dinik 94:5

"Whatever is disagreeable to yourself do not do unto others." Shayast-na-Shayast 13:29

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reciproc.htm

Of course, all the people in those religions deserve to die, don't they?

Sirona

chikikie

come on sirona, your being a little unfair to my (biologiacal) sister, she has left for 10 years, and life has been abit unfair and cruel at times, she is just searching for a better life, arent all of us. She remembers times when she was happy in the JWs, and very few since she has been outside, so isnt it natural to think back to some good times and hold them close to you?
R.Crusoe

I think Reniaa that Sirona and Leo are very adept at finding all manner of research to open your eyes to the reality that the WTS will have you blind to!
On a self reasoning note - like the ones JWs used on me asking if a god of love wouldn't provide a people for those he loved etc and an afterlife too? In spite of them thinking an animal can live a luxurious life or a torturous one and have no chance of a new life!
Its all heresay and emotional prancing! True it would be nice but to place such feelings on a collection of writings from all over and different centuries discounting all current findings that dont fit its say so is deluded in the extreme!
Even the character of god is from one extreme to another! As if god would change and not know the patterns in humans psychologies within a decade let alone the centuries of his having other nations slaughtered!
The expectancy on me to swallow all that stuff as divine just to sit and smile at each other is just very sad and I would laugh if it didn't make me feel the pain of knowing people are dripping their lives away following rules they dont 'feel' under fear of losing family and friends and respect etc!
The guilt is a huge cloud hanging over every KH! I have lost all that! Guilt is a chain and creates sin and wrong reactions and responses! Freethinking, sexual openness and compassion are things of beauty and life! So I take your other point that when a baby is conceived it should be a dual responsibility although whether both were aware it a likely happening causes all manner of difficulties. In short, if you both were planning to have the child then it is for you both to provide for it. But if you have both fallen out then obvious difficulties arise.
Forcing humans to live a life of unhappiness together for the sake of a child is not a thing I feel should be recommended. I can see problems from both perspectives and that difficulties are inevitable! But religion imposes restrictions on humans who want happiness and responsibility! And it helps those who love control to take even more advantage of suchlike characters - which is why I defer from religion because I know only too well how giving in to it ruined my own life for me and even made me wake up every morning (and often as I drifted into sleep) for over a decade wishing I could die but loving the idea of helping in some way the children I fathered -TRUE weird how true that is so I just time outed a second - and when I was free of it all I got haunted by it again - I deplore and despise organised religion for what it did to aspects of my life and even more my childrens liberation from it and its bloody minded controls over things it caused masses of pain I could have prevented absent its interference/ communication control in my and their lives - so I'm damn sure its doing it to others as I write!
Psychologists would say I chose to let my own life get ruined! But we both know 'chose' is the wrong word! Big deal! It changes nothing!
I see you are in a long term fix with baby on the way! Do you like the idea of having a baby to bring up? I'm sure it will get loved!
The life in you and your child and in the world is full of hope!
I wish for you friends you can relate to who make no demand on you other than to be who you are!
That's what causes many of us pain and anguish - lack of down to earth caring friends!
reniaa

Thank you sirona hmmm very honest! I can you are not a little unhappy with JW's, I have been very honest too and if you check my sources in all cases I was careful not to quote Witness sites or scripture using other bibles and sites, the one i used on stauros is not a witness one and indeed condemns them using 'Torture Stake' saying it is incorrect you would not get that on a witness site. I think the points it makes are valid, after 1800 years (your source itself admits this only from 2nd century) surely making stauros become cross is a chicken and egg situation from her arguments, did it become a meaning for cross as well as stake because they wanted it to fit the Cross doctrine and used as such?
Sirona you can't just say I'm spouting JW propaganda because in the end if stuff wasn't outside of the organisation we wouldn't be even having this discussion, I'd be agreeing with you, I've been honest from the start saying I was tempted to go back therefore I will be more in favour than against,
I do resent you saying "We know more than you so shut up we are right," trust me that makes you more like the witnesses than you accuse me of.
I may not be a great scientist but I reserve the rght of any person to do my own research and come to my own conclusions, Aren't you falling into the trap of hating them and trying to disprove them from that point of view, doesn't that make you more predjudiced than I am? who at least is trying to step back and be in less of a mindset either way for or against?
kerj2leev

Look, it's pretty easy to see, you really want to become a witness again. If that is what you want, then just do it!
But if you come on here to debate points that we have debated and argued to exhaustion before, then you are wasting your and our time. I get the feeling you have done this a lot on the boards. You talk about going to Athiest boards and agruing with them, I think I see a pattern. You aren't going to change their minds and coming here to preach, you are going to get the same result.
So again if you want to be a witness then just do it!!!
mrsjones5

Ditto...yeah I read all nine pages
R.Crusoe

Reniaa,
Ever since you were a baby you were taught to ba a girl! Feel, think act and do as women do! You know what I mean! It's why you don't understand why some men are the way they are! Every subliminal action and emotion and ego they developed was just because they identified with the male imagery around them - as did you the female!
Now hold that thought a second!
Jesus was taught to you from that same period of imprinting, conditioning and indoctrination! If you were in the Amazon jungle where for the past 2000 years some outsiders never reached, you would have no clue about it and god would still watch you - if he /she exists!
My point to follow this is:
Sacrifice!
Ancients sacrificed to gods!
Same in OT! Altars and animals and blood! (Did you check out youtube and Horus-Jesus links)
Do you believe god ever took pleasure watching a life form get killed and its blood poured out?
I don't!!!
So how do you explain Jesus unless you believe the above??
jgnat

Reniaa, you may never have learned to evaluate a good argument from a bad one. What I appreciate most about Leolaia's studies is that she is completely thorough in her reasoning, and each conclusion is fully backed before she moves to the next.
Just because you can come up with a reason to continue to believe what you believe, does not necessarily follow that your reason is well-founded or defensible.
And on another note, from one single parent to another, you have my deepest encouragement. It's a long road to parent alone. The rewards are slow in coming, but they are there. My deepest satisfaction is to have both my children's gratefulness and deep respect that I mothered them all the way, unfailingly, always with their future in mind. There were days, I tell you, when I was so exhausted. I dreamed of my days of freedom. Well, here they are and I realize that my greatest achievement is past. I look back on those years as my best.
Now, I will slay other giants, but I know that those achievements will pale in comparison to the great job of raising my two children to strong and capable adults.

Thinking of becoming a Witness again and my reasons for doing so :(

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