Rape a Midianite girl.....what irony....look what started this.

by oompa 44 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Perry
    Perry

    Oompa,

    Allow me to elaborate a little bit on the nature and structure of deception. How did deception get started?

    Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

    Notice how the insertion of just one word (the word not) made it seem like God said the opposite of what he really said. After that, deception and capture of the subject (Eve) was easy.

    The root of all deception is the anthithsis of the word of God. Once the word of God has been perverted, it is easy to appear to destroy it. This is why I have found it extremely helpful to make sure whether or not what someone says is the word of God, really is what He said. It saves a lot of time in chasing down strawmen.

    All modern translations are based on the utterly perverted works of Wescott and Hort. You'll find this in the forward of the New World translation. Perhaps some might find it enlightening to googe those two men and find out about their unbelief concerning the foundations of Christianity and their deep involvement in the occult.

    Personally, I only accept the King James Version as an accurate reflection of the preserved word of God. It is based on the Textus Receptus, which is in agreement with between 95 and 99% of all ancient manuscripts.

    Having said that lets look at the scriptures you cite:

    Duet. 21: 10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, 11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; 12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare F67 her nails; 13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. 14 And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

    Here is is clear that these stipulations were regarding the taking of one of these women as a wife.

    Biblical Commentary:

    According to the war customs of all ancient nations, a female captive became the slave of the victor, who had the sole and unchallengeable control of right to her person. Moses improved this existing usage by special regulations on the subject. He enacted that, in the event that her master was captivated by her beauty and contemplated a marriage with her, a month should be allowed to elapse, during which her perturbed feelings might be calmed, her mind reconciled to her altered condition, and she might bewail the loss of her parents, now to her the same as dead. A month was the usual period of mourning with the Jews, and the circumstances mentioned here were the signs of grief--the shaving of the head, the allowing the nails to grow uncut, the putting off her gorgeous dress in which ladies, on the eve of being captured, arrayed themselves to be the more attractive to their captors. The delay was full of humanity and kindness to the female slave, as well as a prudential measure to try the strength of her master's affections. If his love should afterwards cool and he become indifferent to her person, he was not to lord it over her, neither to sell her in the slave market, nor retain her in a subordinate condition in his house; but she was to be free to go where her inclinations led her.

    I guess the root of my argument here is not with your indignation with the providing of supposed rape victims; but rather with your quotation of "hath God said".

  • R.Crusoe
    R.Crusoe

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIMFz5ZKDVo

    Perry , where in time is the authority given this writing over all the Earth apart from its own claims?

    Like WTBTS self appointed to prophecy all manner of divine dates which then are divinely over ruled! And trumpet blasts in Daniel being chats in English halls (early 20C) from the appointed Jesus in heaven giving divine authority to men in offices!

    Spare me the rolling eyes!

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Of course Deuteronomy 21:10-14 is talking about rape; it uses the same key word `nh that is used in Genesis 34:2 for the rape of Dinah, 2 Samuel 13:12, 14 for the rape of Tamar, and Deuteronomy 22:24-29 in the laws governing rape. This text has its antecedent in 20:14 which refers to captive women as among the "plunder" that Yahweh gives his soldiers for their own use. It is important however that the passage does not authorize the immediate use of rape in war. It requires the soldier to wait a month and then marry the woman he desired to have his way with (during which time he may lose interest in her), while giving her time to mourn her family and criminalizing the sale of her as a slave. So although this legislation outlaws rape as a weapon used during battle, it nonetheless institutionalizes rape in the case of female captives, who by virtue of being "plunder" in war, had no right to consent under the Deuteronomistic law code.

  • oompa
    oompa
    Perry: Here is is clear that these stipulations were regarding the taking of one of these women as a wife.

    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA....did you really write that with a straight face? How the Hell can you call someone your WIFE if you have murdered her entire family and all her friends?????? That is insane...she was captive....and if the Jew did not like the sex or her breath or length of armpit hair....he could let her go. Since when are real wives spoken of as being humiliated?

    perry: I guess the root of my argument here is not with your indignation with the providing of supposed rape victims; but rather with your quotation of "hath God said".

    Interesting thing about the little midianite boys being killed....Moses was standing and conversing with the High Priest, just as he almost always did.........and this little instant wifey of war rule in Deut. was FROM GOD just I believe the entire Bible is supposed to be GODS WORD.....so how can you try and say it was NOT "hath god said?" Are you wanting to pick and choose?.................oompa

  • R.Crusoe
    R.Crusoe

    Basically , forcing any woman to have sex unless she likes the idea is bereft of compassion and any feeling for her feelings!

    But to even discuss it after killing her husband and children is utterly contemptible!

    I just despair at how I was ever imprinted to gain a notion that this ancient collection of records was ever considered by me as divine!

  • berylblue
    berylblue
    I just despair at how I was ever imprinted to gain a notion that this ancient collection of records was ever considered by me as divine!

    Tell me about it. I also really love the law whereby if a man raped a woman, he had to marry her. Excuse me? Who is supposed to be punished here? If I were raped, yeah, I'd REALLY want to be stuck with a rapist the rest of my life. I suppose someone is going to tell me that it was a protection for her since, as spoiled goods, no one else would want her.

    Yeah, that was a real compassionate society and Jehovah's ways are always for the best....

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    How the Hell can you call someone your WIFE if you have murdered her entire family and all her friends?????? That is insane...she was captive....and if the Jew did not like the sex or her breath or length of armpit hair....he could let her go. Since when are real wives spoken of as being humiliated?

    In addition to being used to refer to instances of rape, `nh "humiliate" elsewhere occurs in the OT with the sense of "treating irresponsibily, to maltreat, to humble, by depriving of independence, or liberty, or recognized rights" (S. R. Driver). This is in accord with the status of such women as captives and "plunder" given to the soldiers. Notice these other uses of the term, which express similar ideas:

    "Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated (`nw) four hundred years" (Genesis 15:13).

    "If you mistreat (t`nh) my daughters or if you take any wives besides my daughters, even though no one is with us, remember that God is a witness between you and me" (Genesis 31:50).

    "So they put slave masters over them to oppress (`ntw) them with forced labor, and they built Pithom and Rameses as store cities for Pharaoh. But the more they were oppressed (y`nw), the more they multiplied and spread; so the Egyptians came to dread the Israelites and worked them ruthlessly" (Exodus 1:11-13).

    And here are some examples of the term used to indicate rape (often translated as "humiliate"):

    "When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, the ruler of that area, saw her, he took her and violated (y`nh) her" (Genesis 34:2).

    "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated (`nh) her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives" (Deuteronomy 22:28-29).

    " 'Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use (`nw) them and do to them whatever you wish'. But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go.... During the night the men of Gibeah came after me and surrounded the house, intending to kill me. They raped (`nw) my concubine, and she died" (Judges 19:24-25, 20:5).

    "Don't, my brother!" she said to him. "Don't force (t`nny) me. Such a thing should not be done in Israel! Don't do this wicked thing. What about me? Where could I get rid of my disgrace? And what about you? You would be like one of the wicked fools in Israel. Please speak to the king; he will not keep me from being married to you." But he refused to listen to her, and since he was stronger than she, he raped (y`nh w-yshkb) her" (2 Samuel 13:12-14).

    "In you are those who violate (`nw) women during their period, when they are ceremonially unclean. In you one man commits a detestable offense with his neighbor's wife, another shamefully defiles his daughter-in-law, and another violates (`nh) his sister, his own father's daughter" (Ezekiel 22:10-11).

  • Perry
    Perry
    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA....did you really write that with a straight face? How the Hell can you call someone your WIFE if you have murdered her entire family and all her friends?????? That is insane...she was captive....and if the Jew did not like the sex or her breath or length of armpit hair....he could let her go. Since when are real wives spoken of as being humiliated?

    By your reasoning, all arranged marriages where the wife did not want to necessarily have sexual intercourse with her husband is rape in your opinion. This is an example of a modern expansion of the word.

    The bible is clear that the verses you cited are not about rape in its usual context, but rather they are about it's opposite... legal marriage. The link you provided in your original post contrasted this scripture with God's prohibition on Adultery which is an attempt to make it seem like God participated in sin. Easily disproven.

    Many women in ancient times would dress to the hilt to try and escape death and attract the sexual advances of her captors.

    The laws you cite were designed to make time for the woman to put away her makeup and fancy dress and to regain her composure after their national defeat. It also gave time for the interested Israelite male to have some time to think about if he really wanted to care and provide for this woman for the rest of her life through the legal instrument of marriage.

    If you or anyone else wants to characterize this as rape, I don't have a problem with that. But to say that this was outside of God's own laws doesn't hold water.

  • dinah
    dinah

    Genesis 34:2 for the rape of Dinah

    This is where I took my JWD name. The rape of Dinah.

    Dinah was consenting, as far as I can tell from Bible accounts. Her brothers killed her lover. He woulda married her and all would have been well (not fairy tale but prolly nobody woulda died). But NO! Dinah's brothers killed her lover. Once again, the true rapers went free.

    They use the story of Dinah to keep girls away from boys---PERIOD.

    They use the story of Dinah to wave fear around.

  • oompa
    oompa

    Perry, I guess if that is the best arrangement God could come up with for the innocent girls, and letting little boys be murdered instead of converting them and using them as servants, then he needs all the help he can get.....It is accounts like these that do absolutely NOTHING to draw me close to God, and make it impossible to understand him.....How could any of the people in these accounts say "God is Love?" BS I say, and so would the young Jewish non engaged virgin who gets raped, and then gets to marry her rapist if he can give her dad 50 shekels.........great...................oompa

    please don't tell me you can defend that last one too......most dads want to kill their daughters rapist, not have him as a son in law

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