Rape a Midianite girl.....what irony....look what started this.

by oompa 44 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Deuteronomy 21:10-14 is not about marriage in its usual sense but the taking of women as "plunder" in war (cf. 20:14), and `nh in v. 14 especially suggests that the sexual act in v. 13 is one that is dishonoring to the female captive. This is different from arranged marriages where the suitor must obtain consent to marriage from the bride's parents (cf. Jacob and Laban in Genesis 29); here the parents are presumably dead (for the captive woman mourns them), and it is simply the perogative of the soldier to take her as his wife on the basis of her sexual desirableness. It similarly is his perogative to release her from captivity, if he decides that he is "not pleased with her" (v. 14).

    dinah....The story of Shechem and Dinah has been an interpretively difficult one among readers, but it it is told from a patriarchal point of view, and nowhere gives any indication of Dinah's consent. That it may describe an attempted abduction marriage, see the article "Rape is Rape is Rape: The Story of Dinah and Shechem (Genesis 34)" by Yael Shemesh in Zeitschrift für die Alttestamentliche Wissenschaft (2007), pp. 2-21.

  • Perry
    Perry
    Perry, I guess if that is the best arrangement God could come up with for the innocent girls, and letting little boys be murdered instead of converting them and using them as servants, then he needs all the help he can get.....

    Oompa,

    This was an execution of judgment. It was an expression of God's justice on a wicked people. They seem to have been the principal instigators of the infamous scheme of seduction, planned to entrap the Israelites into the double crime of idolatry and licentiousness [Numbers 25:1-3,17,18] by which, it was hoped, the Lord would withdraw from that people the benefit of His protection and favor. Moreover, the Midianites had rendered themselves particularly obnoxious by entering into a hostile league with the Amorites (Joshua 13:21).

    Apparently, they picked a fight with God and lost. It is not wise to fight against God. He always wins in the end. You may not like God and his judgments, but the simple fact is that this was a military manuever. The entire human race is under a death sentence. A death brought about before old age doesn't discount the guilt or deservedness, nor does it make God a sinner.

    It is accounts like these that do absolutely NOTHING to draw me close to God, and make it impossible to understand him.....How could any of the people in these accounts say "God is Love?"

    Doesn't make much sense does it? Unless, of course you take into consideration that God punishes sin. God is irrelevant and shouldn't even be discussed among intelligent people if sin doesn't exist. However, if sin does exist we would naturally expect God to punish those who do it. We should also expect God's mercy toward those that accept his method of getting rid of it out of our lives.

    BS I say, and so would the young Jewish non engaged virgin who gets raped, and then gets to marry her rapist if he can give her dad 50 shekels.........great...................oompa

    It is hard for me to imagine what life was like in ancient cultures. Here's one view.

    RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29

    First, it is important to recognize that these very verses prescribe a punishment of sorts for the crime of rape, namely the payment of a fine and indissoluble marriage to the raped woman (marriages were normally dissoluble under the proper circumstances). Second, the verses immediately preceding these indicate the death penalty for rapists and adulterers. Vv. 23-24 describe consensual sex with an engaged woman, in which case there is no rape and both parties are put to death. Vs. 25-27 describe the rape of an engaged woman, in which case the lack of the woman's consent is indicated by the fact that the man "forces" her, and the assumption that she cried out for help. Here the rapist is put to death.

    It is in this context of having already established that rape is a capital offense that vs. 28-29 then speak of a man who has probably non-consensual sex with an unengaged virgin. The crime here is a slightly lesser crime because there is no offended husband. Moreover, the lesser penalty also reflects an attempt to mitigate the damages of the crime. That is, in this case the offender and the woman are both eligible for marriage, and it is unlikely that anyone will want to marry the woman because she is no longer a virgin. She will thus have no one to provide for her later in life, and will have not chance of children. This would increase her victimization. Practically speaking, the offending man is more use to her alive than dead. He is allowed to live in order that he might make lifelong restitution to the woman.

  • oompa
    oompa

    Perry, I pretty much don't like it when people try to defend the indefensible.....I like "love your neighbor as yourself"....the Jews were told that, but sure ignored it in the OT.

    Perry: It was an expression of God's justice on a wicked people.

    It is so nice to think about people being wicked when you are slicing and dicing little boys, or bashing their heads in with rocks.....little wicked boys.....take THAT!, at least you got to see us cut your mommy into little pieces first, a wicked mommy.....now we can have a go at your little SOMEHOW NON-WICKED virgin sister with our circumcised penis.....cause GOD is LOVE.......oompa

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    It is so nice to think about people being wicked when you are slicing and dicing little boys, or bashing their heads in with rocks.....little wicked boys.....take THAT!,

    I have to agree with Oompa here. The OT pretty much condemned the inhabitants of the
    land that were not Jews. The whole world was full of violence before the flood, and now
    the inhabitants of the land who were in the way of the Jews were wicked.

    Even if I agree with that about the adults that lured those innocent Israelites to have
    sex with them (poor guys never stood a chance), children are not all wicked. The Israelites
    just got Jehovah's law awhile back, and Yahweh had not contacted any other peoples with
    a law standard that they needed to abide by.

    Truth be told, they didn't want any Midianites to seek revenge when they became men later.
    That is assuming that any of this story ever happened.

  • oompa
    oompa
    otwo: That is assuming that any of this story ever happened.

    Always love your disclaimer otwo...............................oompa

  • uwishufish
    uwishufish

    OOMPA YOU RULE!

  • berylblue
    berylblue
    Many women in ancient times would dress to the hilt to try and escape death and attract the sexual advances of her captors.

    Uh - that in no way means that the women in question WANTED to have sex with her captors. Come on, for crying out loud! Give me a break. We women have had to do many things in order to ensure our survival - and sometimes it has been having sex with someone we actually despised. In my case it was my first husband and I cried through the whole thing - and the bastard never noticed (not that he would have cared). Some women get beaten for not complying in the manner proscribed by their husbands - and they learn to put up a damned good show.

    If this is the case with men we chose with a bit of free will, if not 100 percent, what the hell do you think goes on in the mind of a captive woman?

    Oh, but Jehovah always knows best. .....BARF

  • oompa
    oompa

    Thank you BerylBlue, I wanted to see that coming from a woman who understands. But OUCH....sorry about that 1st bastard of yours. Also, with nearly 3000 posts....you need a profile girl!.............oompa

  • Perry
    Perry
    Perry, .....I like "love your neighbor as yourself"

    Oompa,

    So do I. Can you do that? It is the inability to do that which you like that requires punishment. I mean if lawyers went to law school and opened the hundreds of books that they would be going through and there was only one sentence, "love your neighbor as yourself"; what would our justice system be like?

    People would be hauled up before a judge for everything from smirking at their parents to murder, declared guilty, and all equally set free because there was no punishment prescribed in the law books.

    This is an unacceptable view for me.

    I'm curious, what kind of authority, if any, do you personally accept as legitimate?

  • berylblue
    berylblue

    Perry: It was an expression of God's justice on a wicked people. -------------------- And, pray tell, how are little boys and baby boys wicked? And spare me the JW rhetoric that they'd grow up to be wicked. That's not good enough. Please also spare me the bit about, "they were judged based on their parents' wickedness since they were not of age". Because then that bull about how MERCIFUL God is that he keeps this "wicked system" going in order for many more to be spared holds no water. There are ALWAYS babies, no matter how long God waits, who are going to be killed because their parents are (allegedly) asses - and this is LOVING? Please. God's a freaking sociopathic killer. On his good days.

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