A STUNNINGLY simple question about JOHN 3:16 "For God so Loved the world." (page 28)

Terry

Hey Terry, I gave a STUNNINGLY simiple answer to your question.......no reply..........oompa

I'm stunned I missed it!

I'll go back and look.

Thanks.

Terry

Terry, I work in IT. I do a lot of networking.
What you have here is what we call a "routing loop".
Once wonders what your TTL is.
Some things simply are.
Easy to understand if you ask me. Stunningly simple.
Burn

Sounds interesting.

Should I do a search on routing loop or do you have a fascinating context in which to plug this TTL?

Thanks.

Terry

Interesting thread.
The only thing that upsets me is that it seems that people can't have a debate without being totally condescending to others.
This was totally unnecessary:
I'd cut and past the definition here in a little box, but, I'd like for you to go look it up by doing a search. That way, when you find out you'll have earned the information which will follow.
Terry, you'll find people want to read your comments and respond to you if you offer some respect rather than speaking to people like they are little children.
Sirona

My condescending attitude?

I guess you missed Perry's "contributions" to this thread.

He had given so much I felt it was time for him to take back a little.

That's all.

I've noticed that people who don't get their way sometimes turn into bully's. Perry turned on his name-calling mode and sought to define me pejoratively several times after I patiently explained his misnomers.

So, it was time to rough-handle his twerpishness.

No harm done, really.

But, thanks for caring, Sirona.

I agree we should be able to discuss here without resort to tiresome personal indulgences.

BurnTheShips

TTL ?

Time To Live.

Unless a packet is marked with one, it is destined to loop forever. It can reference hop count or a period of time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_to_live#Time_to_live_of_IP_datagrams

Your IP packets are stuck in a loop. There is a larger Internet out there than the path you are looping on. Bad routes. Maybe a bad destination address. Hopefully you will route out before your TTL decrements to 0.

Routing Loop.

Burn

Terry

Now, my attempt to answer the question posted on this thread. I would say God cared. He cared, maybe, in the same way a soldier cares about an enemy soldier he has just shot trying to kill that soldier that is now a wounded soldier. He just tried to kill that enemy soldier, now he is concerned in trying to save that same soldiers life. Why? Because he is now concerned, interested in that person's condition in the same way hospital workers are concerned with the state of infirm people coming into their sphere of influence. Why? It would immoral not to care, to not be concerned with those in need.

This is an honest and thoughtful answer. Thanks.

What occurs to me about your example is this. A soldier is an agent of command. A soldier is trained (upon penalty should he do otherwise) to follow orders. A soldier is not his own man, so to speak.

When a soldier is ordered to kill he has already made a bargain with his own conscience and removed his personal scruples.

This makes your analogy with God quite different and inapplicable if I might explain.

God serves nobody. God's policy, purpose and standards are de facto perfect because there are none higher. Unlike the soldier who can hope his commander has a better understanding of the mission which requires the killing of an enemy, God acts alone.

This means God gets it right.

That is what is puzzling about mercy or love shown to somebody judged UNworthy of mercy or love. It is baffling that God would controvert His own valuation in reversal of His own estimation of man's deserving status.

So, you see---God can only repent of his treatment of man if there is just cause.

I use the phrase "repent" because it means to turn around and go the other way.

Has God ever been said to repent. Yes! It was for a reason.

God was disgusted that He had even created man in the first place! In the days of Noah the thoughts of man were only on evil all the time. God repented of having made man in the first place.

How does this compare with God making a reversal in the case of love and salvific acts contrary to man's deserved state of sin?

Man was created, apparently, with the best of intentions on God's part. The descent into utter evil wiped away God's appraisal that "It was good" to create man. Change of status brought change of appraisal and change of heart in God.

This is logically sound and corresponds with a righteous standard being upheld.

However...

What this thread is asking is where a contrary state of change came in to play that would enable God to LOVE the unlovable, grant mercy to the guilty who didn't deserve mercy and save the ones who had been marked for death by judging them not-guilty.

This doesn't make sense as a repentant attitude on the part of God.

See the difference?

Thanks.

Terry

In propositional logic, a tautology (from the Greek word ta?t?????a) is a statement that is truth-functionally valid--i.e. it is universally true, or true in every interpretation (or model or valuation). For example, the statement "If it rains, then it rains" is a tautology. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology (logic)

Here is that definition of Tautology that Sirona wants me to give you, Perry.

Sorry about condescending to you. We should be able to discuss things without churlishness and animadversion.

(Do I have to define those for you too?)

As you see from the example, "If it rains, then, it rains." Is just a redundant phrase which fails to amplify or illuminate.

"A compassionate judge shows compassion because he is compassionate" is empty of illumination.

This is saying something without giving a reason for saying it.

It isn't much more than "Nanner nanner, because I say so, that's why." Yet, you apparently think you've actually said something!

Naturally, I see that a lot of what you say is empty of meaning. I should be more compassionate in dealing with you knowing this. But, it is hard for me to, Perry.

I want to view you as an honest contributor to the discussion. But, pontificating puerile pettifoggery prevents the possibility.

Deputy Dog

Terry

...grant mercy to the guilty who didn't deserve mercy and save the ones who had been marked for death by judging them not-guilty.

How does one deserve mercy?

There is nothing that keeps wicked men, at any one moment, out of hell, but the mere pleasure of God.

By the mere pleasure of God, I mean his sovereign pleasure, his arbitrary will, restrained by no obligation, hindered by no manner of difficulty, any more than if nothing else but God’s mere will had in the least degree, or in any respect whatsoever, any hand in the preservation of wicked men one moment.

Jonathan Edwards

Terry

Terry
...grant mercy to the guilty who didn't deserve mercy and save the ones who had been marked for death by judging them not-guilty.
How does one deserve mercy?

There is nothing that keeps wicked men, at any one moment, out of hell, but the mere pleasure of God.

By the mere pleasure of God, I mean his sovereign pleasure, his arbitrary will, restrained by no obligation, hindered by no manner of difficulty, any more than if nothing else but God’s mere will had in the least degree, or in any respect whatsoever, any hand in the preservation of wicked men one moment.

Jonathan

In the realm of everyday human affairs there are appeals made to mercy.

But, in our Topic and in the realm of God---there clearly are no logical appeals to mercy which employ Justice.

God violates Justice if He condemns the sinner and abrogates the condemnation through mercy.

On what would that mercy be founded?

God's pleasure?

Our "sinners in the hands of an angry God" preacher, Jonathan Edwards doesn't explain--he merely asserts.

In other words: no reasons given--simply declarations of "fact".

Deputy Dog

But, in our Topic and in the realm of God---there clearly are no logical appeals to mercy which employ Justice.

God violates Justice if He condemns the sinner and abrogates the condemnation through mercy.

As I asked before "How does one deserve mercy?" If you earn "it", it's no longer mercy, it's a reward.

A STUNNINGLY simple question about JOHN 3:16 "For God so Loved the world."

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