Jw upbringing and retarded social growth.

by AK - Jeff 68 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    There is no sound method of making friends from the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger. The fact, if I wanted a competitive advantage (and especially for a marriage partner or fornication partner), I would suggest that the other men read Garett Losch for advice. They would try it, and quickly strike out trying what he suggests. Then I would apply principles from my "secret society" and other sources (from this forum as well as ads originating here, and as many other worldly sources as possible) and hope for the best.

    The Young People Ask book has the crappiest advice about making friends. As does the Family book. No one is ever going to find a wife following the advice in those books. And, if you make field circus the primary Friday Night Essence, you are assured of not having any results since any "friendship" will be based on working together on a common purpose that is good for neither of you nor society. The essence of the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger's advice is to accept your situation of rejection and loneliness.

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    Wow, that is so sad. I was raised a JW and never had those issues. I had lots of friends at school and in the neighborhood, was pretty popular in school too. I'm about 5 years older than you are, but I can't imagine that is the difference. My children were also popular in school, and had dozens of friends.................most in the congregation, but some in the neighborhood and at school too.

    I had one son who had difficulties making friends, but he has Aspberger's Syndrome. He had friends, but not a lot of them.

    Maybe there are other issues in the case of you guys. I just don't see that it had anything to do with being JW's. I am a very outgoing person and always have been, so I can talk to just about anyone.

    Sorry, I just don't agree that it is the JW thing totally.

  • Bring_the_Light
    Bring_the_Light

    I can relate, but I actually think my being a JW helped my worldish social contacts. Becasue I was the only JW in my school I was pretty unique. Being the only sworn member of my cliche' it freed me to ally with any other cliche' without the inter-cliche' politics and negotiation normally involved. I was nobody and everybody, had real friends everywhere from druggies to nerds, to a few Pop Jocks. \

    This notion that there are groups of well-adjusted, happy people who spend their lives never feeling uncertain, rejected or alone is pretty much an illusion. My favorite "me-wisdom" is if you really want to see mental illness and tradgedy, look into the mental lives of the happy and well-adjusted, they, when you look closely are the deeply sick ones.

    I'm nobody! Who are you?
    Are you nobody, too?
    Then there's a pair of us — don't tell!
    They'd banish us, you know.

    How dreary to be somebody!
    How public, like a frog
    To tell your name the livelong day
    To an admiring bog!

    -Emily Dickenson

  • Bring_the_Light
    Bring_the_Light

    Another piece of "me-wisdom" that might be useful is real perspective comes from seeing everything. So, if you look at someone else and think they or their lives are perfect, its mostly because you are not involved/can't see. The more I poke around and meet different kinds of people, the more clear it has become that everyone is the same. Same insecurities, nobody "actually" holds onto a sense of being superior or secure for very long. Much of this is an illusion.

    We Ex-JW's should keep in mind that just avoiding the JW madness doesn't mean there wouldn't have been "other" madness waiting for us. This is just one human experiences amongst many. (not forgiving JayDubyas here, just saying). I think the real answer involves avoiding illusions, trying to be true to eachother and sharing this experience of ignorance and insecurity with eachother.

    If we were honest, rather than "teaching" our children things, we would say "welcome to the world, please help us, we don't know what to do, maybe you'll figure it out".

  • startingover
    startingover

    Interesting topic!

    I was just thinking the other day about the effect of growing up with the idea that people dislike you because of your beliefs. I have heard the word "opposers" since day 1, probably before. How many people grow up with that word in their vocabulary? Could it be just like being black in the south not that many years ago?

    I too am a loner, but as an only child I think that could have been a bigger influence than the JW upbringing. I had many non JW friends throughout my life. At this point in my life I am very comfortable with who I am and avoid social situations I am uncomfortable with.

  • Bumble Bee
    Bumble Bee
    I believe being in the Jehovah's Witness cult desensitizes our real emotions where we pull our authentic real feelings in , and replace them with robotic emotions.

    I couldn't have said this better myself. As JW's we are on "auto pilot" I think. We are told how to do everything, think, feel, study, dress, work, associate with, etc, and you never really develop that sense of "self". For some people, when they leave, they are truly lost and have to find out who they are, and it's not an easy process, for everyone involved.

    BB

  • BizzyBee
    BizzyBee
    I just don't see that it had anything to do with being JW's. I am a very outgoing person and always have been, so I can talk to just about anyone.

    Sorry, I just don't agree that it is the JW thing totally.

    Interesting, mulan, that you were able to fly under the radar. It would seem that there is some X factor at work here, since the vast majority of born-ins seem to feel like Jeff.

    How was it possible for you to attend school, not salute the flag, not participate in holiday activities, be told that your classmates were all going to die, be taught that education is not important, and have your "worldly" friendships discouraged or outright banned - and not feel socially awkward and apart at the very least? Given those circumstances, even if one's nature is to be outgoing, how could that natural inclination not become stunted? I am curious.

  • restrangled
    restrangled

    AK Jeff,...great subject. I have often thought about this. (Sorry, this is long)

    I was born in... and raised in a neighborhood with a few JW's my own age, along with plenty of non JW's in close proximity. Before kindergarten started, I played with everyone and had lots of girlfriends. There must have been at least 10 to 15 with in a one block radius.

    My mother was a fanatical JW. The older I got, the more fanatical she became about social contacts. By time I hit first grade, unless I was holding a bible study with one of my friends, I couldn't go to their homes or have them come to mine. Of course the parents were also witnessed to and became put off by my mother's constant preaching. This in turn also trickled down to all the kids in the neighborhood.

    Mom had no use for neighbors who would not listen, so we became "objects of hatred". All self induced of course. The witness kids I could play with came from very dysfunctional families. At least 2 wife beaters within 3 blocks. So I developed a very warped sense of what was normal. As long as they were JW's.....they were OK. (I remember an evening where a husband had beaten his wife and she came running to my parents house).....The husband followed and knelt in our front yard wailing for forgiveness....I was about 6 or 7 at the time, every single surrounding neighbor was out watching in their drive ways.

    Because of our reputation in the neighborhood, Halloween was always the worst. Every year "F... You " was spray painted on the side of our house in 6 foot letters. Trees were "TP'd" and eggs were thrown at the windows. (I still hate Halloween)...we always spent the following week cleaning up, repainting and washing windows.....persecution made my mother all the more ferverent! We had to open the door and say..."We don't celebrate!)

    I was taught not to think too much of myself or have any self pride. Just pride at being a Jehovah's Witness and to make sure everyone knew.

    I was taught to feel superior in that regard. The more backlash there was the prouder I could be of holding that distinction. Besides the neighbors, the teachers eventually started to hate us. All the fuss and bother of removing us during celebrations to the library, no holiday art work allowed, no flag salute, no school plays involving just about anything and in music class limited participation. No sports, no after school participation in anything.

    Remember this was the 60's and JW's were considered as odd as the Mormons in the recent crack down. We also dressed as oddly. We stood out just the same and sounded the same, more than they do now if you can imagine.

    So what did this do to a child's ability to be social.....? It destroyed any ego or self worth, it warped values, the ability to maintain friendships or trust in anyone.

    The final nail in the coffin was when I was DF'd at age 16. It cut a chunk out of my heart that will never heal. Yes I left it all behind, but there is a permanent kind of dysfunctional non attachment to the human race portion of me. (I don't know if that makes sense to anyone)

    r.

  • Tyrone van leyen
    Tyrone van leyen

    Ya no kidding Bizzy Bee. I'd like to know too. I can't speak for others Mulan, but witness or not, I can gauranteee you 5000% you wern't raised the same way as me. Off the Radar to me,means, favoured and protected from within a circle of power. I know lots of elders sons that get that special priviledge. I also know that they drink, party their asses off and have sex too. I'm not implying that of you Mulan, so do tell. Surely if you wern't effected, you must have seen a dichotomy within,of those that were,obviously, cause there are lots of us. I was not only outgoing I was charismatic, and the witness elders did everything in their power to crush me. Shit they wouldn't even let me play chess, no concerts, no girlfreinds, no shit!

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff
    How was it possible for you to attend school, not salute the flag, not participate in holiday activities, be told that your classmates were all going to die, be taught that education is not important, and have your "worldly" friendships discouraged or outright banned - and not feel socially awkward and apart at the very least? Given those circumstances, even if one's nature is to be outgoing, how could that natural inclination not become stunted? I am curious.

    Interesting questions those, BB. You have summed the causes, but perhaps the effects part of the equation is different with each person, as suggested? Perhaps genetics, or a looser attitude within the home of the strict standards of the religion is a part of the picture.

    I think that in my case - it is a combination of early influence of the religion and my inward drive to try and live it fully [which I know that many jw influenced kids don't do - my brother and sister were raised in the religion also, but largely ignored it's dictates, and had tons of friends and did not attempt to ever become witnesses themselves until much later in life], combined with the tragic loss of each friend that I attempted to make as a young adult Jw.

    I don't feel scarred by this - not really - but know that it has forever changed my worldview, my ability [or perhaps desire] to blend in to society in general. I have not become a hermit. But I don't seem to desire a large crowd around me. I am fiercely loyal to anyone in my life, but don't seek to put too many in my circle. I have more friends now than ever before I think, and I attribute that to several years out of the bOrg now, the free therapy that I have had on JWD, and a mental/emotional outlook that is now flipped 180 from my Jw paradigm.

    I started the thread, because in many ways, now out for over 4 years, it is just now becoming clear to me just how ultra-retracted I was/am socially. I do attribute it to Jw history, though I have known of others who would just as quickly attribute their introverted nature to strict Baptist upbringing, or strict Amish lifestyle [prevalent here]. I have known of Jw's who did not have this nature. Mostly they were the ones who dared to 'go against the Society's' thinking and allow themselves outside contact throughout life.

    Perhaps it is an internalized interpretation of the rules that made some of us become so insulated in our lifestyle. On any count, I think it a good discussion for-in me to engage.

    BtL's Dickenson contribution fits well into the thinking. Thanx for that.

    I like this Robert Green Ingersoll quote, and it may be part of the equation also, as the WTS put us directly in the chasm between:

    “If a man would follow, today, the teachings of the Old Testament, he would be a criminal. If he would follow strictly the teachings of the New, he would be insane.”

    Jeff

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