E-mail to JW Ex-Wife: What You Can Learn Researching the WTS in 3 Hours! (page 6)

Vinny

If Reniaa wants to use another thread, I'd be happy to move on over. Sorry about the hijack seeker. Life is like that...

("as the voice of God", how bout that!)

Did God say NO Vaccinations for JW's?

And then CHANGE HIS MIND and say vaccinations are now okay to have?

Did God say NO ORGAN TRANSPLANTS FOR JW'S?

And then CHANGE HIS MIND and say organ transplants are now okay to have?

Your not being interested in JW's past record is like saying you don't want to know about a new boyfriend's past. And why he was married three times even though all three woman died young. Such a spirit is foolish.

But I believe you are smarter than that. The real reason I believe you are not interested in the WT Society's PAST is because it destroys the house of cards fallacy and belief that God has chosen them.

A mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and ‘the faithful and discreet slave."

To be disfellowshipped, an apostate does not have to be a promoter of apostate views....If a baptized Christian abandons the teachings of Jehovah, as presented by the faithful and discreet slave, and persists in believing other doctrine despite Scriptural reproof, then he is apostasizing. Extended, kindly efforts should be put forth to readjust his thinking. However, if, after such extended efforts have been put forth to readjust his thinking, he continues to believe the apostate ideas and rejects what he has been provided through the 'slave class', then appropriate judicial action should be taken."

(You can see a copy of the actual letter in Ray Franz 'Crisis of Conscience', page 341.)

"Persons who make themselves “not of our sort” by deliberately rejecting
the faith and beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses should appropriately be viewed and treated as are ((((those who have been disfellowshiped for wrongdoing))))."

Most will never know about these many things. And that is WRONG.

This is what they say and teach.

They cannot get it both ways Reniaa. Either they are providing food from God and do deserve such faithful obedience or they are not and cannot demand such obedience.

Is is name pronounced Jehovah or Yahweh or something different? We can't be certain because there are no vowels.

Perhaps it was pronounced as Jehovah, but there is no way to tell for sure. This is one reason why many do not elect to use a name that COULD BE WRONG. Especially when that possibly wrong pronunciation is addressing the Grand Creator Himself.

Does that mean then, that because one chooses not to guess at it, and instead uses other titles like Father, Lord, Sovereign of the Universe or others (AS JESUS HIMSELF CLEARLY USED), that they are automatically wrong, lacking in spirituality, or their prayers are not being heard by God at all? Because of not being SURE about the exact name pronunciation, can it be deemed as illogical then that some choose not to use the name today when addressing God himself?

I personally have no problem using that name nor with others using it. I have heard it and used it many times and still use it at times.

Where we may DISAGREE however, is that I cannot see the see objection to other educated ones choosing NOT to use it for the very simple reason that "we cannot be certain". I would personally hold back from judging such ones adversely or place any negative labels on their relationship with God. (Not saying that you have done this by the way...

Jesus' name is different. They DID have vowels in Greek. The pronunciation is known. It's simply which language do you speak, in that decides exactly how that name is used. With Jehovah, nobody knows for certain. This is one reasonable reason, in my opinion that some choose not to use it, or instead replace it with a very respectful and appropriate title. I can understand and respect why some would feel this way.

Additionally, there are 5000 different copies of the New Testament going as back as far as 200 AD. Guess how many of those 5000 older manuscripts have the Tetragrammaton in their copies? ZERO. Not one single time. Even though many of these very same copyists did use the tetragrammaton in the Hebrew writings where it was used.

So, I would not put TOO MUCH emphasis on the JW's using the divine name. Especially when they have 100-plus years of mistakes, false predictions, medical disasters, wacky science and more.

Trinitarians believe there is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

JW's believe there is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Trinitarians and JW's simply disagree with just what exact role each plays.

Is the Holy Spirit an "impersonal" active force, or instead a "personal" active force? I really do not care which it is to be honest. If it is with you and helps you then that sounds good enough for me. There is an abundance of scriptural support for the holy spirit being a personal active force too.

Is Jesus equal to the Father, or is Jesus subject to the Father? I have my opinion. It would be more in harmony with your opinion Reniaa. Could I be wrong? Yes, it's always possible. And I will continue to examine this issue.

But does it destroy one's worship of God, to you Reniaa, if a worshiper believes Jesus is equal to God as well.

After all, Jesus is called Eternal Father, Mighty God, was prayed to and more. TOO MUCH IS PUT ON TRINITY IMO.

If you think that this one issue alone gives the WT Society a free pass on all these other problematic things, you are very mistaken. The blood issue is one that I have dissected inside and out. My goal was always to get to the truth about it. I never felt quite right about how it was applied to blood transfusions. EVER.

But I just went along with the Society anyway. I was younger then; more naive than now. But when I learned how the Society had made so many mistakes, throughout its entire history, it instantly raised red flags on that one issue of blood. They were wrong before and cold be wrong again now, was my line of thought.

Well, after an exhaustive examination, that covered every WT CD article written, as well as medical journals and other religious opinions all over, I came to the absolute, 100 percent conclusion that the WT Policy on blood was WRONG. As wrong on blood as they were before on Vaccinations, Organ Transplants, Alternative Service, End of the World Predictions and a host of other issues.

This Blood stand by the Society is CURRENT by the way. The WT is wrong on blood Renia, AS YOU SEEM TO AGREE.

Come on, answer up!

That one policy alone destroys the "One True Faith" status. People die for that policy, right now, today Reniaa.

And we still have literally hundreds, thousands actually of other problems to contend with in addition to Blood.

Now, you can stick to the Trinity if you wish. But just be clear, you are not dealing with the real problems here.

It's like being sold a new car by a salesman Reniaa:

"Just look at how nice the engine sounds... and how pretty the paint is"......

A hui hou,

Vinny

GoddessRachel

Yeah, good point, willyloman. I can't recall anyone really saying anything to Seeker 4 about the original content, except that it is good and we will use the points personally.

Seeker, I am interested to know what your ex-wife responds with, if anything. I hope that she lets curiosity get the best of her and really gives your words careful attention and thought!

Fadeout

Seeker, that's a great email, calm, rational, well-reasoned. The only thing I would be concerned about is the casting of doubt on the Bible itself (Adam, Flood, Jesus, etc) because that is a way bigger step from JWism to atheism/agnosticism than JWism to WT-doubting Christian. One step at a time. But you never know, everyone responds differently.

still_in74

good job Seeker...

you even enlightened me a bit!!!!

Vinny

Now that I have finally read the e-mail to your wife, I think it is fine. Plus, many of the things I have discussed with Reniaa would very easily apply to her, should you see something worth including. So, I don't feel quite as bad about jumping in on your thread now...

: )

Quirky1

Good letter Seeker! You need to e-mail this to "my" wife!

AK - Jeff

Well done S4 - as usual.

May I borrow a few portions, selectively, for discussion with a relative of mine?

Jeff

Seeker4

I'm reading the above and laughing - I've been to dinner parties like this, with all these different conversations going on!

Willy, Goddess and everyone down to AK Jeff: Thanks, and use the letter as you will.

No response from my ex yet, and I expect none. I think she's upset at me, and I'll try to smooth that over in the next week or so.

OK, about time for JCANON to drop in here with an explanation about how the thickness of Jerusalem's walls in 324 BC tells us when the next lunar eclipse will be. Take it away JC!!

S4

Sirona

Good letter

I'd be interested to read her response!

Sirona

M.J.

Great letter, Seeker! But I also have to add a "FWIW, and for the benefit of any anal-retentive lurker..."

607/1914 or any of the chronology was not DERIVED from pyramidology. The B.S. chronology was simply one of many applications of the standard biblical date-setting techniques derived from the book of Daniel (year-for-a-day, "prophetic years", etc.) that swept through America in the 1800s & early 1900s. Russell just borrowed the chronology from the Adventists who preceded him. The pyramidology came about LATER and was used to "shore up" the already existing chronology. But he did consider the Great Pyramid "The Bible in Stone".

E-mail to JW Ex-Wife: What You Can Learn Researching the WTS in 3 Hours!

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