The hardest question for Jehovah's Witnesses ...

by sacolton 46 Replies latest jw friends

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    Ouch! my last point must have hit the mark, people usually start getting personal when that happens.

    I am a Jw simpathiser and my profile admits as much, I'm one of a number on this site that probably are a good balance offering alternate viewpoints to the debate so you haven't just got a load of yes men for each "I hate WTs topic" I don't do the Jw standpoint everytime if you read my posts I'm more biblical innerancy in my leanings. but thankyou for the advice.

    Back to the original debate the scriptures you use are just general ones anyone can use how do we know to whom they apply to?

    reniaa

  • Homerovah the Almighty
    Homerovah the Almighty

    This was decided that they were going to be the slave when their printing presses were being bought

    Truth at times can be stranger than fiction

  • BreakingAway
    BreakingAway
    people usually start getting personal with me when I make a point that hits the mark,

    Ah yes, the old persecution syndrome as proof that one is "right".That old bone has been dug up plenty of times before and I don't fall for it.Balance is always good.But what you see as "tickling exjw ears", I see as a protection for those truly seeking a way out.At any rate, you can rest easy, I'm done with you.

  • Awakened at Gilead
    Awakened at Gilead
    Reniaa:

    Back to the original debate the scriptures you use are just general ones anyone can use how do we know to whom they apply to?

    OK, back to the debate... I accept you as a JW sympathizer and agree we shouldn't just be antiWTS yes men, but rather if we want to WT-bash-fest, we should have a good reason.

    Soooo, getting back to Sacolton's question, I'd like you to focus on the year... you take it as a given that Jesus would return in a specific year and inspect religious groups, as the WTS describes it... soooo...

    How do you know that 1919 is a marked year? I'll even let you have it easy and say that (even though we know its not true) the Gentile Times ended in 1914 as JWs say that it did. How do you come up with 1919? Where do you find any chronological prophecy that points to a 5 year period after Jesus supposed enthronement?

    Your explanation, please?

    A@G (of the WT-Bashing for a very good reason class)

  • Tired of the Hypocrisy
    Tired of the Hypocrisy
    Governing Body told me so!

    Non Sequitor

    Jesus was pleased with it's food at the proper time

    Maybe they need to be less concerned with NEW LIGHT and buy a New WARMING LAMP...The food is now tainted with salmonella and poopy microbes from the hands of the slave......

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    Hi awakened :)

    You make good points and although I am a simpathiser it doesn't mean I agree with everything, Personally I would happy if they dropped the whole date stuff, no one can know the time it will be like a "thief in the night" I still think we can be in expectation atm because certain morale and scientific changes world-wide are significant.

    Here's a question for those that dare to speculate?

    1 Thes 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them,

    will they be crying out for peace or as I wonder will they be saying we have peace now?

  • Homerovah the Almighty
    Homerovah the Almighty
    because certain morale and scientific changes world-wide are significant.

    Reniaa would like to be a little more specific

    Perhaps maybe the WTS has been intensionally exploiting the scriptures to help in the circulation of their own literature.

    Because of the obvious money factor involved with the book publishing company wouldn't an honest back ground analyst by prudent and justified .

  • Terry
    Terry

    Here's a question for those that dare to speculate?

    1 Thes 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them,
    will they be crying out for peace or as I wonder will they be saying we have peace now?

    Such scriptures were not written with our day and time in mind at all. Clearly people in the 1st Century who were Jews and Christians obviously felt THEY were living in the last days.

    They lived in the Roman Empire. Jewish Apocalypticism influenced such thinking. It was a time of foment, upheaval and insecurity. The Sicarii and other Jewish militants were provoking a cataclysm with Rome (just as they had done in the time of the Macabees by provoking the Greeks.)

    When you read such statements as the quotation above, it is best to read it IN CONTEXT!

    Here is what happened.

    The Jews, the transitional Jews-into-Christians and the Christians really, truly, honestly felt the Messiah was coming ANY MINUTE to bring about the restoration of God's righteous rule upon Earth.

    The words, sentiments, expressions and famous scriptures we cite clearly express the actual viewpoint of NOW! (Their "now", not ours.)

    But wait!

    Jesus (nor any genuine Messiah) did NOT return.

    Logically, you cannot stay on pins and needles waiting expectantly for an "impending event" which simply does NOT happen!

    A change in viewpoint was necessary psychologically.

    The imminent return of Messiah (Jesus or whomever) to END the world and start it anew---WAS GRADUALLY REPLACED.

    By what?

    A gradual Christianizing of the world by Saints!

    This is what became the role of the Church under Constantine. The world would be changed by conversion and by good example!

    The "soon he will return" became "we can bring about the new world through our own efforts".

    Look at history. Read about the ideas, the theories, the movements within Christianity. See how they were thinking about things.

    Every thought of Christians was to stay pure and undefiled (some becoming monks, recluses and such) until conversion of the world took place.

    The Puritans thought they could become perfect! The New World (America) would be a shining City on the Hill run by Pure Christians and serve as a beacon to persuade the rest of the world to become Christianized and bring about the end of human corruptions!)

    READ CHURCH HISTORY! It is all there.

    By the time the 18th and 19th century rolled around: THIS THEORY HAD EXHAUSTED ITSELF AS WELL. People weren't becoming more and more nearly perfect. They were becoming tired of rules, punishments, isolation from enjoyment in life. Programs, charities, preachments had not brought about the perfecting of society at all. The wars proved it. Disillusionment was enevitable.

    Then what happened?

    Another change BACK TO THINKING IT WAS GOING TO COME ANY MINUTE NOW!

    We've come full circle.

    Remember, the Jehovah's Witnesses of today are merely a branch of the failed prognostications of William Miller and his subsequent 2nd Adventist followers!

    Pastor Russell founded this religion on the castoff bunkum of charts about Pyramids, Dispensations, calculations and crackpot imaginations!

    Russell caught people's fancy because they were damned well ready for an outside part (Jesus) to get it all over with while they were still around to see it happen.

    The catch-phrase Rutherford banged into people's minds, you'll recall was: MILLIONS NOW LIVING WILL NEVER DIE!

    Jehovah's Witnesses experienced in 1975 EXACTLY what the Jews and proto-Christians experienced in AD 70!

    Now, another turning of the circle is about to take place.

    The wheel of theory will turn back to "change the world through example, conversion and such."

    The more things change; the more they remain the same.

  • Homerovah the Almighty
    Homerovah the Almighty

    I can make an honest and a assertive speculation that the person that said or wrote the words of 1 Thes. 5:3 some thousands of years ago

    actually thought that natural disasters such as earth quakes, thunder and lighting, flooding, volcanic eruptions were caused by a almighty God.

    I always feel there never is enough of the human ignorance factor made mention when ever the discussion of religious theology takes place,

    why I don't know , to me true wisdom is derived from looking completely at all sides of the situation not just the front of it.

    Isn't history a wonderful thing to look back on though, I think it is.

  • jaguarbass
    jaguarbass

    JW's dont question.

    If some one ask a question they cant answer. The person asking that question is a bad person.

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