"Such an evil star"

by Yadirf 56 Replies latest jw friends

COMF

You win. I haven't the interest to go looking for a refutation, besides which I agree with the page you cited: that's how it ought to be. Go for it.
COMF
Yadirf

Detective
There is no suggestion in the bible whatsoever that the star was sent by satan. It's not in the bible. That is just witless doctrine and is completely unfounded.

You really do need to do some detective work, Detective. If you can take the rough waters, I’d suggest starting with- http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=8504&site=3
Here's a few thoughts in addition to that though:
The way it really was:
Satan knew the Magi’s trade. He was not ignorant of the fact that when the Magi would witness something really great or spectacular in the heavens that, being astrologers, these ones would interpret such a happening as an indicator that somebody, somewhere, had been born destined to become someone great, such as a “king”. The mere appearance of the “star” told them that much, and that’s what supplied them the reason for asking: “Where is the one born king?” (Matthew 2:2) But, apparently, how they knew that the one born was to become king of the “Jews” was that the “star” lay off in the direction of Israel. Thus the “star” served as a pointer, so as to identify the particular nationality of the new-born “king”. Naturally these star-gazers would then head out for Jerusalem, because of obvious reasons … all quite in accord with Satan’s plan of having Jesus killed while still a young child.
Of course Satan, even before he caused the “star” to appear, knew quite a lot about King Herod’s disposition. He knew that Herod would try to stamp out any threat to his throne. That being the case, and because Satan desperately wanted Jesus dead, then all Satan had to do was to in some way bring it to Herod’s attention that such a “king” had been born. His way of accomplishing that? By using a trick “star”, that’s how! Of course, at first the Magi themselves didn’t know that they were being used. What scheming, what deceit, that was on the part of Satan. Satan knew that the Magi would wind up in Jerusalem inquiring about this “one born king of the Jews”. He also knew that any talk circulating around town regarding ANYONE having been so born would eventually come to the attention of King Herod. So, what a perfect scheme to make an attempt on Jesus’ life. So while it’s true that Herod learned from prophetic Scripture (via the chief priests and scribes) the exact town in which the “child” was to be born, he would have never made such an inquiry had the Magi not come into Jerusalem asking such an anger-arousing question. And likewise, the Magi would never have come into Jerusalem to begin with had the “star” not made an appearance.
Insofar as the question of whether or not the star ‘walked’ the Magi from the outskirts of Jerusalem on into Bethlehem, a critical analysis of Matthew chapter 2, particularly verses 9 and 10, suggests that this absolutely didn’t happen … that when the Magi got to Bethlehem the “star” had arrived much, much earlier than they did. Apparently, it seems, when the star disappeared after their initial brief encounter with it, it was later (meaning at the time they saw it again in Bethlehem) construed by them as having right then gone directly to Bethlehem. Because of having completely lost touch with the star until having seen it once again in Bethlehem the account reads: “ On seeing the star they rejoiced very much indeed.” It’s like they were in effect saying: "Ohhhhhhh, so it was HERE ... to Bethlehem ... where you ran off to after we had seen you previously!"
Just how brief was their initial encounter with the Star of Bethlehem? In order to accomplish the purpose for which Satan caused it to shine to begin with, it didn’t need to remain visible until they got to Jerusalem. By merely having appeared (however brief a period it may have actually proved to be) the “star” had succeeded in pointing the Magi in the right direction so that they would come into contact with jealous Herod, exactly as Satan intended. Once that much had been accomplished, the scheme of Satan for having Jesus put to death was well on its way to completion …or so Satan thought. Due to the fact that the Magi, although they knew the town to go to in their search for the child, they didn’t know which house Jesus would be in once they got there. But of course Satan caused the “star” to point that out to them too. Apparently, according to the Magi’s own reasoning, it looked to them that after it had so mysteriously disappeared from sight following their very first encounter with it, the “star” went directly to Bethlehem “until it came to a stop above where the young child was”. Two rather brief encounters with the “star” was ALL that it took to accomplish what Satan had set out to do in the beginning. And, had God Himself not entered the picture so as to defeat the purpose of the “star”, Jesus would have been put to death by Herod’s orders and God’s purpose regarding the Messiah would have been thwarted.
It will be noticed that in the above paragraph I said, “according to the Magi’s reasoning”. And this is a most important thing not to miss. If one will but consider the account close enough the point I made can be discerned as being the case. And LIKEWISE, with regards to that object being called a “star” we see that such was ONLY according to the impressions drawn by the Magi themselves. So, when they said, “we saw his star” … they were merely referring to it as a “star” because it appeared as a bright object in the night sky where one would as a rule observe actual stars. And so, when we read in verse 9 these words: “When they had heard the king, they went their way; and look! the star they had seen, etc.” … this is not the Bible-writer Matthew calling the object a star. What the reader is being presented with here is Matthew’s having accounted for the way the object impressed the Magi. In other words it seemed to resemble a star to them, rather than the Bible itself attesting that it was an actual star.
Yadirf

Daniel 11:35 ... a prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.
teejay

Aside from the grammar lesson, I think you have a point, Friday.
You intimate that satan had hopes of pulling a fast one on god by manufacturing a star in the night sky, directing his pagan dupes to the babe in order to do away with him.
As powerless as the father seems to be in accomplishing any aspect of his stated will, the ruse might well have worked. Thankfully, it was only human effort that saved the day when the magi decided to foil Herod's plan and left town by way of a hidden route.
just a thought.
tj
Cygnus

There was no star, there were no Magi, there was no baby Jesus. Nyah nyah nyah.
Fred,
I learned the same as you did.
detective

Yadirf,
Fascinating Essay. Where do I find these insights in the bible? Please cite scriptural evidence to support the claims made in your essay.
"Satan knew the Magi’s trade. He was not ignorant of the fact that when the Magi would witness something really great..."
I'm glad somebody knows Satan's innermost thoughts. What book is this in? Song of Satan? Book of Lucifer?
Farkel

: I'm glad somebody knows Satan's innermost thoughts.
Yadirf (Friday) has many talents, and here is a list of them:
1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10) Stalking
I will continue to fairly list his other talents as he reveals them to us.
Farkel
"When in doubt, duck!"
D wiltshire

Yardif,
You speak with such conviction, and you make many ass up tions.(Is that the same thing as talking out your ass?)
I don't think you know for sure all the things you say.
Typical Mind Control Cult black and white thinking.
If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
siegswife

I think ya'll are gonna be in a heap of trouble over this. Why on earth would you make such an assumption? The magi came to worship Jesus didn't they?
I've read that the 'magi' could quite possibly have been 'astonomers'. They were men who tried to use astronomy to understand the natural cycles in life. Enoch was somewhat of an astronomer. What they could have seen was a rare occurance of the 'king star' and the planet jupiter aligning. Apparently such a thing happened around the time period of Christ's birth.
Jehovah's Witnesses go way too far with some of the shit they spout.
Yadirf

Teejay
You intimate that satan had hopes of pulling a fast one on god by manufacturing a star in the night sky, directing his pagan dupes to the babe in order to do away with him.
I'll give you an "A+" on having gotten the general idea right.
As powerless as the father seems to be in accomplishing any aspect of his stated will, the ruse might well have worked. Thankfully, it was only human effort that saved the day when the magi decided to foil Herod's plan and left town by way of a hidden route.
I give you an "F-" on this one. You should've known that the Magi's choice to return to their country by a route other than back through Jerusalem was due to a divine warning they received from God.
Wiltshire
I don't think you know for sure all the things you say.
I'm glad you only "think" that. The question is, What do you KNOW? So far all you've really done is given indication that you're terribly biased against Jehovah's Witnesses, while resorting to cheap language to express that fact.
Detective
Fascinating Essay. Where do I find these insights in the bible? Please cite scriptural evidence to support the claims made in your essay.
What are you talking about? Didn't you hear Cygnus? He said: "There was no star, there were no Magi, there was no baby Jesus."
What part of Cygnus' comment didn't you understand? I thought he was rather clear myself. Seriously though, perhaps you would like to assume the burden of proving to the board and me that God was the source of the "star" instead of Satan. Do you feel up to that? Afterall if it wasn't Satan then it must have been God, right? And so I'll put the same question to you as you have put to me: Where do I find such insights in the Bible? Where exactly does the Bible say that it was God himself that caused the "star"? I'm sure though that you will readily admit that it boils down to having to reason on the available information given in the account, since there is no specific scripture that attests that it was God that caused what the Magi observed.
Really I don't know why you should be so interested in all of this in the first place, since you disregard the Bible as being true anyway. Don't you? Is it also true that you don't even believe in a Creator? If so, how do you manage to tie your shoe laces each morning?
Farkel
10) Stalking
stalk 1. To walk with a stiff, haughty, or angry gait: stalked off in a huff. 2. To move threateningly or menacingly. 3. To track prey or quarry.
Which one?
Siegswife
What they could have seen was a rare occurance of the 'king star' and the planet jupiter aligning. Apparently such a thing happened around the time period of Christ's birth.

The conjunction of planets that you speak of could not logically have 'come to a stop above where the young child was,' thereby identifying the one house in the village of Bethlehem where the child was found. It is also notable that only these pagan astrologers "saw" the star. Their condemned practice of astrology and the adverse results of their visit, placing in danger the life of the future Messiah, certainly allow for, and even make advisable, the consideration of their having been directed by a source adverse to God's purposes as relating to the promised Messiah. It is certainly reasonable to ask if the one who "keeps transforming himself into an angel of light," whose operation is "with every powerful work and lying signs and portents," who was able to make a serpent appear to speak, could not also cause astrologers to 'see' a starlike object that directed them first, not to Bethlehem, but to Jerusalem, where resided a mortal enemy of the promised Messiah.--See Insight On The Scriptures, Volume 2, page 1033.
Yadirf
Daniel 11:35 ... a prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.
D wiltshire

Ydirf,
My language was not cheap, BTW how much did you pay for your language, mine probable cost twice as much.
Oh, I forgot to ask did you wipe off that brown stuff off your nose after you got done writting that letter?
If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?

"Such an evil star"

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