by Yadirf 56 Replies latest jw friends
Hey yadrif,
Bring your big balls into yahoo chat sometime. Let's see how you "act" there, on the mic. I dare ya. Or are you afraid your feelings will be hurt there too. Balls like yours are nothing new to me. So bring it on, if you dare. Text is for cowards who DO have access to voice chat, yet REFUSE.
sKally, waiting on friday, klass
Hi again Yardif,
I just did a search for the word star in the bible..
I didn't do an exhaustive search, but I did find a few examples, and they all seem to put stars in a good light..
examples:
Gen 37:9
Num 24:17
Deut 4:19 (especially interesting!!)
Just a few...
While reading all these posts, I can't help but notice how bitter and mean Friday is towards everybody! I thought God tells us to love our neighbors and our enemies as well as to have humility. It seems, Friday, that you lack any of these qualities.
Why talk to others in such a condescending way - is it maybe because you know that, in fact, you do not have any proof or justification from the Bible to support your conclusion about the Star? In the three pages of this thread, you have yet to directly answer the question that has been put forth many times - where is your proof (and again, a Watchtower publication is not considered proof)???
Wannahelp,
Would you please answer three questions for me:
I will try my darndest … just for you.
1.) Does the bible state literally that the star was sent by satan?
In so many words, yes it does. But not directly. There are sufficient clues to draw such a conclusion from. I’ll give you an example, based on another point in the Bible.
Regarding Revelation 17, as you no doubt know, many people have misunderstood that the name on the harlot’s forehead is that of herself. However, that’s not the case at all. Instead, it’s the name of the scarlet-colored wild beast. How can that be determined to be the case for sure? By letting the Bible be consistent with itself, that’s how. By reasoning on the Scriptures we can see that just as the names on the foreheads of the 144,000 (Revelation 14:1) is not their own personal names, likewise, to be consistent then the name on the harlot’s forehead can’t be her own personal name either. And to be honest with you, right now I’m slightly disappointed in the fact that the WTS has yet to figure that out. But I know they eventually will, so I’m not to terribly disturbed. I don’t mean to try to tell you how to build a watch when all you ask for was the time so to speak. But it takes words to communicate, which I believe you can appreciate.
2.) Are you or the WTBTS claiming that you received this information of the 'satanic star' via divine revelation?No ma’am (or is it sir?), that’s not the case at all … at least not in the same manner that the writers of the Bible were inspired. However, it does aid one enormously if one’s thoughts are kept in strict harmony with the spirit of the Bible.
3.) Being that the 'satanic star' is a mere human opinion held by either you or the WTBTS or both, can you be 100% sure that you are correct? If so, how..Yes! … I’m totally sure that is correct deduction to have made. And you can be too, if you allow the Bible to speak for itself. All one has to really do is keep it foremost in mind that you want nothing less than to arrive at the truth of the matter. That means that you must dedicate enough of your time and energy, along with a genuine desire to find the treasure (and it is a gem of knowledge BTW), and you will arrive at the right conclusion as based upon the clues available from the account. If I can do it, you can do it. I can’t do that part for you, because your appreciation for the Bible and its truths must be acquired mostly as a result of your own heart’s search. That’s the way much of the Bible has been put together, whether we like it or not. Personally I like it that way, and that’s the reason, for example, that the Revelation account is presented in sign language … making use of symbols and the like. It’s a fact that neither God nor Jesus gives what is holy to dogs … meaning people who for the moment aren’t able to appreciative a matter. If you’re really sincere, meaning that you’re not just simply wanting to put me to the test, as time permits I’ll do my best to walk you through the matter maybe sometime in the not-too-distant future. But NOT if you don’t already accept the Bible as the expression of God’s thoughts. I just haven’t the time nor the energy right now to nurse anyone along who hasn’t gotten at least that far along in their spiritual lives. The fact is, I think that if you thoroughly consider the link that I provided earlier, that alone, although the continuity of it is riddled with bickering and needless interruptions, it should provide sufficient information for one to see why the "star" had to have been of Satanic origin.
If not, then how do you claim rightousness and show humility by passing judgement on all the christian religions that view the star as a good thing?You’ve asked some very pointed questions, and reasonable ones at that. Insofar as passing “judgment” on Christian Institutions which give glory to what amounts to nothing less than a Satanic tool, I find nothing unjust about that … because such agencies have the obligation to KNOW the truth. As it is, today the truth is available regarding this issue, but the Churches of Christendom haven’t the ears to hear. The leaders of those Institutions bear a far heavier responsibility than do those church members who merely trust their judgment as those who are supposed to know what they are talking about when it comes to doctrinal matters such as this. I’m not one to show favoritism either, as I have some personal issues with the WTBTS. For example, I reject the idea that 1914 saw the beginning of Christ’s “presence”, and all that swings around the year 1914 … as still being taught by the WTBTS. For that reason I no longer am able to conscientiously participate in the offering of the Society’s literature to the public. But, I know that things will change so that the WTS is in full harmony with the Scriptures with regards to everything. How do I know that? It’s a rather long story, that I doubt that you’re in a position to appreciate at this time.
Thanks in advance for your answersThank you for being so congenial. And I hope that I have perhaps helped a little, or at least not ruffled the feathers too much.
Yadirf
Daniel 11:35 ... a prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.
Yardif --
To quote:
Yes! … I’m totally sure that is correct deduction to have made. And you can be too, if you allow the Bible to speak for itself. All one has to really do is keep it foremost in mind that you want nothing less than to arrive at the truth of the matter. That means that you must dedicate enough of your time and energy, along with a genuine desire to find the treasure (and it is a gem of knowledge BTW), and you will arrive at the right conclusion as based upon the clues available from the account. If I can do it, you can do it. I can’t do that part for you, because your appreciation for the Bible and its truths must be acquired mostly as a result of your own heart’s search.
That is contrary to WBTS viewpoint.
Channel to understanding the Bible... All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave. (The Watchtower; 10/1/1994; pp. 8)Ofcmad
PS- You are also missing the part about the Holy Spirit and bible reading.
"Noah was a drunk and look what he accomplished." The Metatron/ Dogma
"and then I got disfellowshipped from JW.com"
Poor Friday and his victim mentality... some of us move on, some of us... become Friday...
Friday, if you turned up at ANYONES' house, and acted in the offensive and inane way that, hell, just comes to you naturally, the owner of the house would ask you to leave. If you didn't, they and their friends would firmly escort you to the door.
You are responsible for that happening, no one else. Own the responsibility, if you can, rather than making out you were wronged. It's a moronic arguement and using it makes you look like like a moron.
As for your routine of bothering about how many angels you can fit on the head of a pin, and your puny, human conception of god and satan, if this is your idea of making god's message relevant to the world today, god had better get better representatives, as you make the whole thing ludicrous. Dying babies? Talk about a bad star...
People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...
friday-
No where did you ever catch me saying that I thought the star was an imaginary object. You really haven't got your facts straight. If you had looked the thread over that I recommended you would know better than to assert that I claimed such a thing.so long as you believe that satan did create a "thing", and it wasnt an "imaginary object", then we are back to the simple facts. no where in the bible does it say or even imply that the devil ever created anything. according to the account in genesis, god created all things. you go on to try and back up your "logic" with the example of satan making the snake talk. do i think its within his power to create light? what i think the devil can do or cannot do really isnt the point; the point is if the devil can and did create light, there would be no need to leave this fact out of scripture. were we left to reasonably deduce that the devil made a snake talk? of course not! that would be preposterous, wouldnt it? no, it was plainly stated in the scriptures, just as satans creations would be plainly stated if they existed.
? Of course I realize that if you happen to be atheistic then such a thought would clearly be out of reason for you. Are you an atheist? Answer that, if you will please … because it is meaningless for me to speak in terms of such things as Satan, etc. if you reject the idea that he actually exists. Understand?of course i understand, and no i am not an atheist. if i did not beleive in the bible, why would i argue scripture?
God didn’t create “Satan”. Where did you ever get such an idea as that? That spirit creature became “Satan” … as a result of his own actions. Well, I can already see that you haven’t any respect for the Bible as having been inspired by God … but I still would like to know whether or not you believe in God. Or are you agnostic? You know MY stand in that regards, so why shouldn’t I know yours?starting from the back forward, i see you felt the need to repeat yourself here and ask yet again if i believe in god. the answer is still yes.
as far as whether or not god created satan, he did indeed, and this is an undeniable fact for even you friday. of course the spirit creature god created "became" satan, and this was exactly my point. according to you, god uses his power of foretelling or "forseeing" to prevent "tragedy", correct? couldnt our almighty god that created everything in the universe "forsee" that this spirit creature he was about to create would eventually betray him, become evil, become satan, and so on and so forth? of course he had that power, hes god! so from your standpoint, he couldnt have created the star, becuase he wouldve "forseen" the deaths that followed, yet he did not choose to "forsee" that his spirit creation would eventually become satan. as i said before, your "logic" is extremely flawed. youre not "letting the bible be consistent" with this line of "reasoning".
Insofar as all the people that have died as a result of Adam choosing to reject God’s directives, if that’s your idea, the blame for our troubles in that regard have to be placed upon Adam’s doorstep, not God’s.well, if youd like to take that path, we can. same line of reasoning as your star example really. lets say god created the star, but he did know that this would lead to herods slaughters. would the deaths then be gods fault for creating the star? or would "the blame...in that regard have to be placed on" herods "doorstep"? herod chose to kill, but it came as a result of gods creation. adam chose to sin, yes, but did it not come from gods creation, namely adam? could god not have "forseen" this if he so chose?
What is so unusual for people to express their appreciation for having been helped with anything, whether it’s food, clothing, financial help, or educational help. I really can’t understand where you’re coming from here.well, so you cant understand where im coming from. its quite simple, your "letter" sounded phony; it sounded like a baited piece in order to re-hash an old argument, and guess what? it worked, here we are! phony is just something you can sense. ever watch someone singing on tv, and you can just tell they are lipping it, even though you cant prove it? in some situations, you can just tell.
As a matter of fact, although I didn’t disclose it in my post, because I deleted that part, I also included a monetary gift as a further expression of my appreciation...money well spent.
“Who really cares?” Why you do of course! Otherwise you wouldn’t have made such a big fuss out of it.lol, actually originally (you can go back and check if youd like), i wasnt making a "fuss" at all, but merely pointing out that i realized your letter was phony. its a way of telling someone, "you might fool some, but not all". obviously when i expressed how transparent your attempt was, you then jumped on the defense, wondering how i could ever have thought you a liar, and it went on from there.
But why would you suppose that they got a “nice belly laugh out of it”? You really are full of an endless array of doubts, aren’t you. Is there ever anything positive that happens in your life? Somehow you impress me as being a person that for everything you touch it tends to go haywire, because you are just full of negativism. I hope I’m wrong about that, but you really are quite a pessimist.humor is sometimes wasted on the dense. did you think i meant they were literally laughing friday? lol. it was a way at poking fun, nothing more. you see, if even the brothers at bethel would laugh at your letter, the way we all have, then that letter would have to be pretty ridiculous, wouldnt it? understand? its sarcasm, and as i said, its wasted on some.
as far as the rest of your ramblings go, im not sure why my poking fun brought you to the conclusion that i have an "endless array of doubts", lol. im also unclear on how my joke gave you such insight on my life and supposed pessimism? hmmm. i really shouldnt even justify your ravings with a response, but since you are so curious i will humor you. i wouldnt consider myself a pessimist, no. i also would certainly hope that everything i touch doesnt go "haywire", lol. i have my share of problems just as anyone else of course, but all in all, life is grand at the time being, and thank you so much for your concern.
Well, are you an atheist, an agnostic, or what???wow, the same question a third time.....are your batteries wearing down? i can just picture the veins popping out of your head as you frantically type for the third time, DO YOU BELIEVE IN GOD DUBLA.....DO YOU, DO YOU???????.
aa
Yadirf...You said (your words in quotes)
"But where in the BIBLE does it say that if Satan DID make the star appear that the angels would surely have warned the Magi before they went to Herod? Aren’t you having to resort to logic and reasoning in order to assume such a thing. Then how is it that you wish to rule out logic and reasoning when it comes down to considering whether or not Satan was the author of the star (as indicated by your question in the first quote directly up above). Is it that if such a thing could indeed be established that it would play havoc with your precious Christmas holiday? That would be quite devastating to you, wouldn’t it?"
LOL...the only reason that I would have to reason such a thing to BEGIN with is to refute YOUR supposed logic and reasoning that he DID. The star coming from Satan is mentioned NOWHERE in the Bible, so I would have NO REASON to come up with that conclusion (that the angels would have warned them BEFORE going) if you hadn't asserted the ridiculous ASSUMPTION that you did. And why haven't you used 'logic and reasoning' to refute MINE? Instead you try to twist it to chide me for using 'logic and reasoning' against YOURS. Good answer....NOT. MY PRECIOUS CHRISTMAS HOLIDAY? ROFL...you know absolutly NOTHING about me, yet you ASSume to know my heart and that I would be DEVASTATED by something regarding a holiday. ROFLMAO I also would like to assert that when it comes time and it is established that Satan DIDN'T produce the star, YOU will be quite devastated, no? I don't see any reason why Yahweh would EXPECT anyone to come to the conclusions that JW's do. They only do that so they can justify CONDEMNING those who are Christian that DO celebrate the holiday...isn't that so?
"Whoops, there you’ve already been found guilty of using reasoning and logic again. Now which way is it going to be, Is the use of logic and reason going to be allowed, or disallowed? You can’t have it both ways, to be consistent."
There you go, NOT answering the topic. When did I say anything against logic and reasoning. See, using logic and reasoning I can see EXACTLY what you are doing by making this charge against me....avoiding coming up with a REAL answer.
"The fact of the matter is that JWs are the only ones that truly take Jesus’ command at Matthew 28:19, 20 seriously. Does the “pastor” of you church stress the importance of each member consider it a personal obligation to go make disciples in obedience to Jesus’ command? Or do they merely keep the pew warm and feed the kitty when it’s passed in front of them? Now be honest!"
First of all, Jesus told his BROTHERS to make disciples. Not all JW's are Christ's brothers, are they? Some are merely 'friends' at this point. Secondly, the Bible clearly says that all are teachers, not all are apostles, etc. MAKING disciples doesn't mean telling others what to believe, say, and THINK. The BIBLE says that once someone receives Holy Spirit (which is a gift to the TRUE DISCIPLES, not the clones) they don't NEED ANYONE TO TEACH THEM ANYMORE. Do JW's think that the Bible is LYING about this? BTW, MY TEACHER is Christ. HE doesn't give a hoot about how much money is in a kitty, OR how many hours of field service HIS disciples put in. Kapeesh?
"Listen Mrs. Sieg, I’m undoubtedly old enough to be your father … so it’s not as if I haven’t been around the block a time or two. I’ve considered both sides of this issue a sufficient number of times to know the score. I do know that wanting to know what’s true has to be the thing of most importance in a person’s heart if one is to arrive at the truth of a matter. (Proverbs 2:4, 5) Furthermore, the ones you point the finger at have no “authority” in the way that you imply. Jehovah’s Witnesses have no leader except Jesus Christ. The entire congregation is made up of brothers and sisters, and that includes those who bear the responsibilities of Governing Body members. You’re simply full of hot air! Yes, there is oversight … which is a Biblical thing."
You must be pretty darned old, since I'm a GRANDMOTHER myself. I have checked into BOTH sides of the issue also, and find the WTS severely LACKING in everything pertaining to CHRIST. YOU are full of hot air with that 'no authority but Christ' bullshit that you spout. We both know that's not true of the borg.
"I’ve produced several times more to support my position than what you or anyone else have to support yours. But like I’ve already asked: Is using logic and reasoning in, or out? If with you it’s in, then what fault can you find with my reasoning? Perhaps you would do well to meditate further on what’s been said, as well as click on the link and review the 4 or 5 pages of discussion there < http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=8504&site=3>";
I've heard it all before. In FACT, when I WAS in the borg, this star thing was one of the problems I had with them. I forgot about it though, until you brought it up. Again, what is this ASSumption you have that I don't like logic and reasoning? AGAIN, by saying this over and over, you prove to me that YOURS is flawed.
"No, that’s not true at all. It’s just that they intend to find favor with God, the Source of life, and aren’t careless in that regard like Christendom is. Yes, we are very interested in knowing whether or not something is bad. To not be so concerned would be very, very foolish. What your problem really is, it seems to me, is that the narrow road doesn’t suit you. It’s more important for you that you be able to engage in all the pleasures that can possibly be stuffed into a 365-day year, rather than concern yourself with the realities of life … that more than anything else what mankind needs the most is LIFE. BTW, when’s the last time that you reviewed the obituary column? Was it empty? No, instead it was filled with listings of the deceased … those who didn’t make it past the stage of infancy. There are some that died in their 30’s. Most often the daily list is comprised of ones who saw around 70 to 75 years of life. "
I agree it's foolish not to be concerned with such things. The Bible says 'look for the good, not the bad" which I try to do. The Bible also says "by their fruits you will know them." I take that to mean, that although I try to see the good in people, when it becomes BLATANTLY OBVIOUS that they are ROTTEN, you shouldn't ignore it. Your organization fits that bill to a tee.
sieg-
You must be pretty darned old, since I'm a GRANDMOTHER myself.LMAO......friday loves to ASSume, doesnt he?
aa
FRIDAY,
We've had this discussion before, you and the Society are just dead wrong on saying the star was a product of Satan or that the Magi were sent by the Devil.
YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]
