Why Adam and Eve were unfairly judged by God (page 3)

darth frosty

Good breakdown of the truth. Now I look forward to your conclusion on Gen. 11:1-9.

OnTheWayOut

Any God, of any form whatsoever, that arbitrarily changes the rules when he knows he's about to lose or "he's been had", is worthy neither of worship nor respect, in any form.

Awesome conclusion. Don't try this argument at home with JW loved ones.
But it plays well to those that understand.

Good points about not choosing the God of the OT as a friend, also.

Thanks Darth Frosty.I would have to say that the account at Genesis 11:1-9 falls into this territory as well.After all, God directly intervenes in an activity he never even formally forbid.Oh, he did say to "fill the earth and subdue it", but he never mentioned how long that was supposed to take.Apparently someone lost the deadline papers.The main problem seemed to be that Nimrod was in opposition to God.Ordinarily, that attitude in itself might have been ignored but Nimrod was drawing lots of attention to himself through the building of a massive tower and this in turn drew everyones attention to the issue at hand, namely, that Nimrod essentially said: "let us make a name for ourselves." That declaration apparently pissed God off big time.

From the information presented in the Bible it seems rather evident that Nimrod was a tyrant and was also the founder of Nineveh which was referred to as, The city of Bloodshed.So bloodshed , both of animals and humans, is what he enjoyed.Not a nice person, to say the least.(Incidentally, God seems to enjoy this activity as well.So you'd think he'd at least buy the guy a beer before taking him into the corner and saying:"Look guy, I've got an image to maintain here, so it's nothing personal but I'm gonna have to break up the party.So shove off'.")But this is also the reason why people like the account so much; since God steps in and breaks up the activity.But ultimately, did it accomplish its purpose ? Yes and No.It certainly prevented them from completing the construction of structure that was said to be anywhere from 1,000 feet to over 1 mile high ! As a result of lack of communication they scattered throughout the earth.However, they ALSO took with them their various religions and attitudes.If such ones were of a murderous nature, then instead of concentrating them in one central location , it would cause them to fill the earth with such a spirit.It could be argued that it actually facilitated the spread of false beliefs and violence.And now hundreds of religions exist instead of the main one that was concentrated in Babel or Babylon.

One might argue that all of this was necessary for the protection of a select group through whom would be the appearance of the messiah.Nevertheless, this very same select group was also later responsbile for the death of the messiah.This resulted in their abandoment by God and ultimate destruction as a favored people.Obviously, mankind, both as a society and as individuals, just doesn't seem to have what it takes to please God.The first man ever made , Adam, "screwed up", so he killed him..The first woman ever, "screwed up", so he killed her..One of the top angels (and his buddies)screwed up, so he's gonna kill all of them.The preflood descendants of Adam screwed up, so he killed them....and kicked in the innocent animals as a bonus. God's chosen people screwed up, so he killed them.The world today is in opposition to God as well, so he's gonna kill all of us.Does this guy create anything he doesn't get pissed off at and kill ? Might I put a note in the suggestion box to stop making stuff that screws up so you don't have to kill it ? Or how about just not acting like a dick and having impossible standards ? Which brings us back to the original thread about being judged unfairly.

BreakingAway

Any God, of any form whatsoever, that arbitrarily changes the rules when he knows he's about to lose or "he's been had", is worthy neither of worship nor respect, in any form.

Awesome conclusion. Don't try this argument at home with JW loved ones.
But it plays well to those that understand.
Good points about not choosing the God of the OT as a friend, also.

Thanks OTWO.You're certainly right about not telling JW loved ones about this stuff as it could result in an attempted exorcism/stoning.Probably the exorcism first, and then the stoning to make sure "they" don't come back.

james_woods

You can literally drive yourself crazy trying to come up with a "literal" or even a "rational" sense of what in the world this story was even all about. You die because you ate an apple? Not even the wicked witch of Hansel and Gretle can much out-do this one - after all, they were not her own kids. This story says God killed Adam, Eve, and the whole human race for eating an apple.

You can also literally drive yourself crazy trying to figure out how the answer to all this nonsense was a human sacrifice - not Adam nor Eve, they were already dead, but somebody else.

The witnesses used to try to explain it away by saying "Jehovah has a very strict sense of rigid justice".

It still never made any more sense to me than the equally entertaining (but ultimately vapid) tales of the Gods of ancient Greece.

Perry

The point was mentioned more than once on this thread that God changed the rules. I was just wondering if someone could explain exact how the rules were changed?

owenfieldreams

I dont agree with the fact that God 'changed' the rules--but even if he did, he has the right to, as the Supreme Being--it's his universe and he can do what damn well he wants! he's not bound by what YOU think standards and laws he should abide by. The arrogance of some of you--Sheesh....

james_woods

Owenfielddreams - just think about what you are saying. Please. Mankind has no reasonable assurance of consistent law from his one true God? Nawww - God just does what he wants, no matter what he said before.

This is the standard by which you wish the universe to be ruled? Justice by whimsical tyranny on the spur of the moment?

About the rules change - "In the day you eat from it, you will surely die".

Well, how about "Within about 900 years from when you it from it, you will surely die".?

Perry

About the rules change - "In the day you eat from it, you will surely die".

Hi There James Woods!

I think Adam's spirit died instantly when he disobeyed. So, in that sense he did die that very day. The flesh filled the power vacuum and he became governed by the flesh having thenceforth being in possesion of an impotent spirit that exerted little or no influence on his personage.

In another sense, His flesh did also die that very day in an expanded way in that a thousand years is spoken of as being just one day to God.

I'm curious, do you see God allowing Adam to physically live out a fleshly life for 930 years as an act of mercy? Should God in your opinion be allowed to show mercy at his whim much the same way we give our elected Presidents and Prime Ministers unlimited powers of clemency?

Would it be hypocritical to demand something from God that we extend to our own errant elected leaders that occupy our highest offices?

owenfieldreams

james woods,

First, I'm accepting the premise that you are not an atheist. If you are, then not much of what I think on this subject will make much sense to you. If you go by the ' day for a year' then they did indeed die within that 'day'--with a thousand years being a figurative day, but that's another subject altogether that could be debated ad nauseam by itself.

My point is this--whether you or I or any other human with only an imperfect mind to think with and reason with THINKS it's fair or not what God did in the garden of eden is irrelevant. Besides, you and I are not "all knowing", and we are greatly limited compared to the One who created us when it comes to thinking and reasoning ability, thus OUR perception of what is fair or NOT fair may not necessarily square with what the Supreme Being's is. When you are Master of the Universe, you get to make the rules. YOU may disagree with God all you want--but surely you are not suggesting that any of us humans know better than God?

Why Adam and Eve were unfairly judged by God

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