Why Adam and Eve were unfairly judged by God

by BreakingAway 60 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  james_woods

  My dear OwenFieldDreams -

  Again I must ask - think about what you are saying in reference to God. Again you say - he is the master of the Universe, and he can just do what he damn well pleases. Including killing off almost all of humankind for the most trivial of reasons?

  Ate the Eden pomegranate fruit - death to all of them! Some of the women had sex (probably unwillingly) with your own horny angels? - watery death to all of them! Won't listen with bended knee to the governing body and sell their magazines night and day? Fiery atomic death to all of them, and let nasty carrion birds pick their very guts.

  This is more like the predatory murdering aliens in the movie "Independence Day" than anything godlike. It is mass genocide that would make Hitler or Stalin proud.

  Man is better than this. Real God is better than this.

  I don't care if such a killing entity is more powerful than I am - if he should come down here in the big mother ship to kill us again, count me in to fly one of the F-18s against him. Or program a computer virus to mess with his mind.
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  snowbird

  When you are Master of the Universe, you get to make the rules

  Those 13 words should be emblazoned on everyone's forehead!

  Thank you.

  Sylvia
• 

  EphemeralPleasures

  "YOU may disagree with God all you want--but surely you are not suggesting that any of us humans know better than God?" I think that's a perfectly reasonable suggestion. Most humans do, indeed, know "better" than God. Reading the Bible today, modern thinking individuals surely know more about the Universe and its movements than did the God of the Bible - also about germs and microbes, agriculture, mathematics, and many other things the average primary-schooler knows more about. Mankind is also more aware than the God of the Bible about standards of morality - we no longer condone the enslavement of foreigners, rape of conquered women (and in some cases, children), genocide for purposes of land-grabbing, human sacrifice, or treating women as property. No modern society would allow a moral code of conduct based on what God advocates in the Bible. So yes, in short humans DO know better than God.
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  james_woods

  But Snowbird - if those 13 words were emblazoned upon your forehead, you would be "marked in the forehead".

  This is in itself yet another reason for God to KILL YOU!

  And Perry - as we are debating whether or not God breaks his own rules, (and speaking of this "day you will die" thing) - if these rules are so damn important that it means life or death for us - then -

  Why can't God spell it out in plain terms so that a simple human could understand it? There wasn't any such trivia as "day for a thousand years" or "well, your DNA will kind of get unravelled, so you will eventually die out 9xx years later" when he laid down the law to Adam and Eve in the fable.

  And so here we are, trying to make excuses for God's obfuscation and unexplainable violence all these thousands of years later.
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  TheSilence

  My point was that the Supreme Being, whatever you want to call him, has the RIGHT to set standards of right and wrong and what's fair and unfair.

  That, to me, is like saying the biggest kid on the block has the right to bully all the neighbor kids. Or, to go one further, that a parent, having created a child, has the right to bludgeon the child to death for having broken the parent's rules. Perhaps you mean that the supreme being has the *power* to hold people to it's standards of right and wrong, fair and unfair. Every parent has the *power* to kill his/her child, that doesn't mean they have the *right* to do so. I don't acknowledge this right you so easily give to some supreme being. If he/she/it chooses to be a bully and kill his/her/it's creations for not following silly, arbitrary rules, I certainly can't stop him/her/it, but that doesn't mean I acknowledge his/her/it's right to do so. This is all, of course, assuming that a supreme being actually exists.

  Jackie
• 

  Finally-Free

  When you are Master of the Universe, you get to make the rules.

  Yes, and change those rules on a whim without notice, and still expect to be loved - even worshipped. Any who fail to comply are to be tortured and butchered and burned.

  I "own" birds, and I am the master of my home and everything in it, but my ownership of them doesn't give me the right to burn out their eyes with my cigarette, does it? Doing that could land my ass in jail, and rightly so. Ownership does not absolve anyone from accountability. Someone who creates life becomes accountable to that life, just as parents have a responsibility to their children, and are accountable.

  When a human abuses, tortures and kills we call him a monster, war criminal, psycho, etc. When someone invisible does it, we call him "God" and fall to our knees in worship.

  I won't give a human love or respect if they don't earn it. I expect even more from someone who calls himself "God" and demands "worship".

  W
• 

  Perry

  James, first you stated that God changed his rules here:

  About the rules change - "In the day you eat from it, you will surely die".

  Well, how about "Within about 900 years from when you it from it, you will surely die".?

  Then you state:

  And Perry - as we are debating whether or not God breaks his own rules, (and speaking of this "day you will die" thing) - if these rules are so damn important that it means life or death for us - then -

  Why can't God spell it out in plain terms so that a simple human could understand it?

  Are suggesting God broke his own rules or changed his own rules? I'm not debating anything. I'm just trying to understand your reasoning here.

  That's why I asked you these questions:

  I'm curious, do you see God allowing Adam to physically live out a fleshly life for 930 years as an act of mercy? Should God in your opinion be allowed to show mercy at his whim much the same way we give our elected Presidents and Prime Ministers unlimited powers of clemency?

  Would it be hypocritical to demand something from God that we extend to our own errant elected leaders that occupy our highest offices?

  Are you dissatisfied with God because he showed mercy or because he didn't show enough mercy?
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  Perry

  In one sense it seems rather harsh that God would say if you only eat of this particular tree, you'll die.

  But, I always try to start with what I know as opposed to what I don't know. What I do know is this: I personally can't live up to my own lofty character that I set as goals for myself. The bible calls this being dominated by sin. The harder I tried as a JW, the worse it got. So, eventually...I just gave up trying to be "good".

  It makes sense to me that if we were created, that God would give us the ability to do that which we actually aspire to. I believe Adam and Eve had this ability by means of their spirit that led their flesh.... instead of the other way around like we experience now. If so, then surely God knew that one act of disobedience, simple in nature as it was, would lead to all the heinous crimes that humans do; thus an appropriate death sentence.
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  darth frosty

  When you are Master of the Universe, you get to make the rules

  The problem with that statement, as it relates to the original subject, is the fact that,god has these wild cards that were'nt explained at first. To change the rules when you lose(and god does come off as the loser here) is unfair and childish. I remember when I was a kid I made up a card game called luke (after luke skywalker...c'mon I was 8.) I would play this game with anyone who would entertain me. Like any kid with pride in his new-found creation, when someone would beat me at my own game as it were, I would cry foul.

  That is the same thing that god did (if you want to follow the bible.) The serpent found the flaw, the hole in the game and revealed it to the player's. He than proceeded to UNFAIRLY punish said players and than admit 'yeah they were right.'
• 

  james_woods

  Perry wrote:

  It makes sense to me that if we were created, that God would give us the ability to do that which we actually aspire to. I believe Adam and Eve had this ability by means of their spirit that led their flesh.... instead of the other way around like we experience now. If so, then surely God knew that one act of disobedience, simple in nature as it was, would lead to all the heinous crimes that humans do; thus an appropriate death sentence.

  My God, Perry! (please excuse the euphamism!)

  One act of disobedience, simple in nature as it was - was worthy of an appropriate death sentence?

  I am glad that horrible old sinful Mankind does not presume to apply that kind of "justice" in juvenile court for petty theft.

  Again, I must ask all Genesis Apologists - please think about what you are really saying. You are attempting to justify homicide for the most trivial of reasons.