Can being gay live in harmony with being a christian?

by digderidoo 70 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  FlyingHighNow

  Dig, think about this, according to the bible, which many of us do not think is everybit-from-god, there are many "sins" listed. All people, all christians are sinners according to their definition. The Episcopal Church views its self as a spiritual hospital where people go for spiritual healing. Some will say that churches are full of hypocrites, The Episcopal church will answer, "What better place for hypocrites, than church?"

  We don't all agree that God bans homosexuality. If we are followers of Christ, then it's important to note that Christ himself never banned homosexuality.
• 

  BurnTheShips

  When he came across the Samaratin woman at the well, he did not scold her for living with a man who wasn't her husband. Jesus was about showing kindness and mercy. Yes, he did stand up to those who spoke in the name of God but did evil to their brothers and sisters.But he never stood up and said anything to gays.

  FHN.

  Jesus also saved the adulteress from a stoning at the hands of the Pharisees who judged her as guilty.

  But then he told her to go and sin no more.

  BTS
• 

  digderidoo

  So therefore FHNow you seem to be saying that it's a sin, but because we're all sinners that's okay?

  Paul
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  No, Dig, I am not saying it's a sin. Other churches claim it is a sin. They claim lots of things are sins. They don't bar peope guilty of those other sins from church. Why should they ban homosexuals? If you do think it's a sin, then so are many other things a sin. I do not believe being gay is a sin.
• 

  BurnTheShips

  I do not believe being gay is a sin.

  Whereas a same-sex orientation is usually not a choice it is not in itself a sin. However, homosexual practice is a sin, regardless of what you believe FHN.

  BTS
• 

  scotsman

  Well Paul, that is a JW definition of a Christian that might merit a bit of mind broadening investigation. The gay friends I have that are Christian belong to high Anglican, Episcoplian and Quaker faiths. I've never forced them to justify their position just as they don't seem to have a problem with my absence of belief.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  I have a shipwreck of my faith, I am examining the Bible right now with a
  skeptical view. However, my understanding is that I don't judge others at
  all on such matters as current beliefs. I only understand that religions that
  insist on their members towing the line along exact lines are wrong.

  What is right? I don't know.

  I do know this. "Christian" is accepted as a term meaning a follower of
  Jesus Christ. It was Paul who was the homophobe, not Jesus. A person
  could easily follow Christ and not follow what Paul said beyond that.

  Even following the scriptures including what Paul said, everyone is short
  of the mark of perfection in following it. There is no more shame or error
  in being gay than there is in being promiscuously heterosexual or in
  having extramarital affairs or in drunkenness.

  1Cor. chapter 6 describes those that will not inherit God's kingdom.
  Listing men who lie with men along with drunkards, fornicators, thieves,
  extortioners, etc- then saying in vs. 11, "And yet that is what some of you
  were. But you have been washed clean, ...sanctified, ...declared righteous
  in the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ..." A WT-trained person says that
  means you have to give up such practices. Another spiritual person might
  say that means nobody can inherit God's Kingdom unless Christ cleanses
  them. That cleansing can come at death, or at acceptance of Jesus as
  your saviour, or at some other point in your belief system.
• 

  momzcrazy

  Who is a Christian?

  The definition of who is a "Christian" varies among people and christian groups. Some believe that, to be a Christian, an individual must go to a church and participate in baptism. Others teach that instead a belief and acceptance in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is necessary. Some consider a Christian to be simply one who tries to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

  Some theologians consider a Christian to be anyone who accepts the Nicene Creed. This ancient text is accepted by Catholics, the Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans and all the remaining mainline Protestant Churches.

  Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and many Protestants define a Christian as one who has become a member of the church through the sacrament of baptism. In these denominations, infants who are baptized may be considered Christians, although they are expected to make a personal affirmation of faith when old enough to decide for themselves.

  This is part of Wikipedia under the definition of "Christian". What each person considers a Christian differs. What is required to be a Christian differs. By what standards are we catergorizing "Christians"?

  momz
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  BTS, there are many practising catholics who are also practicing gays. The Catholic Church does not seek them out and bar them. In fact, many Catholics do not believe being gay is a sin. Did Jesus say it was a sin? He never mentioned it.

  Jesus told everyone to sin no more. Sin in the sense of harming each other and the earth.
• 

  BurnTheShips

  So your therefore saying BTS that it's okay to be gay as long as you don't act upon it? I can't see how someone who is gay can live a christian life like that. If that's the way you are then why should it be wrong to act upon it. I think God would be a cruel god to create this aspect to some people's nature and then not allow them to act upon it.

  Homosexuality advocates will argue that since it is not a "choice" they should be allowed full reign for their desires. But because something was not chosen does not mean it was inborn. Some desires are acquired or strengthened by habituation and conditioning instead of by conscious choice. For example, no one chooses to be an alcoholic, but one can become habituated to alcohol. Just as one can acquire alcoholic desires (by repeatedly becoming intoxicated) without consciously choosing them, so one may acquire homosexual desires (by engaging in homosexual fantasies or behavior) without consciously choosing them. Since sexual desire is subject to a high degree of cognitive conditioning in humans (there is no biological reason why we find certain scents, forms of dress, or forms of underwear sexually stimulating), it would be most unusual if homosexual desires were not subject to a similar degree of cognitive conditioning. Even if there is a genetic predisposition toward homosexuality (and studies on this point are inconclusive), the behavior remains unnatural because homosexuality is still not part of the natural design of humanity. It does not make homosexual behavior acceptable; other behaviors are not rendered acceptable simply because there may be a genetic predisposition toward them. For example, scientific studies suggest some people are born with a hereditary disposition to alcoholism, but no one would argue someone ought to fulfill these inborn urges by becoming an alcoholic. Alcoholism is not an acceptable "lifestyle" any more than homosexuality is.

  BTS