Can being gay live in harmony with being a christian?

by digderidoo 70 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  FlyingHighNow

  No, but the Catholic Church clearly teaches that living as a homosexual is a grave, mortal sin, and is unacceptable.

  According to Julia, the official stance is that the Catholic Church condemns the sin, not the sinner. She said that the behavior is taught to be a sin, officially, but the person is not condemned for it.

  She said that some Roman Catholic Bishops and Priests take a strict stance and would not administer the Eucharist to actively gay Catholics. She said that some Bishops and priests do administer the Eucharist to actively gay members. She shared that some priests and nuns are known to be actively gay. She said this depends on location and the culture of the area. She says it's definitely a gray area in the modern church.

  Julia says that homosexuality was not an issue for Jesus. She points out that Paul had problems with homosexuality, but he also had issues with women. She points out that Paul had a lot of contradiction personally and in his teachings.

  Julia said that going back into the old testament, the ban on homosexuality had economical roots in that men needed male heirs to pass their land and fortunes to, which is something I have always suspected. She also brought out that it had a cultural root. Greeks and Romans tended not to have a cultural or economic problem with homosexuality, but the Hebrews did.

  Julia holds a doctorate in psychology. She tells me that the Dominicans are very progressive. I was connected to her through a psychologist I met at St. Mark's Episcopal Church, last year when Andy had his accident and Mickey left us. She has worked with me according to what I could give her. She's helped me in amazing ways. She's very open minded and gifted in knowing how to help people heal. This is a link about her:

  http://www.sinsinawa.org/01_About_Us/03_What_We_Do/Ministry_Therapists.htm

  Here are some other fields her sisters are engaged in:

  http://www.sinsinawa.org/01_About_Us/03_What_We_Do/What_We_Do.htm
• 

  BurnTheShips

  FHN

  This is the official teaching:

  2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, 141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." 142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

  2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

  2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

  http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  BTS, I think Julia is more in tune with what the Catholic church practices than the writer of the source you gave.
• 

  BurnTheShips

  FHN, that is the official English translation of the Roman Catholic Catechism. That is it, directly. I don't know how much more in tune you can get than that!

  Respectfully,

  BTS

  EDIT:

  Here is a link to the same document on the Vatican website:

  http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#II
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  I'm telling you that the practices are far different than the catechism.
• 

  VoidEater

  http://www.gaychristian101.com/

  There are lots of flavors of Christianity. I've not delved into the above site myself much, but it may be a starting point for those inclined.

  I still deal with a lot of WTS-inspired bias against the RCC. So I wouldn't necessarily go to them as my way to Christ in any case. And I think the various pro-gay Catholic groups have their own opinion on being RC and gay at the same time, regardless of official doctrine.

  Is harmony possible? Of course - there are lots of gay Christians - and Christ never said a word about the subject...

  =====

  Even the most vociferous anti-gay evangelical scholars like Dr. Robert Gagnon of Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, admit that the Holiness Code in Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13 does not address the issue of committed, faithful, non-cultic sexual relationships between men.

  There is no logical analogy between ancient cult prostitutes who worshiped the fertility goddess and modern gay men and lesbians. Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13 are God's prohibition of shrine prostitution, not homosexuality.

  That is why God placed the Holiness Code prohibition in v. 22, right after v. 21, which forbids worship of Molech. The Bible addresses shrine prostitution under the rubric of Molech worship.
• 

  BurnTheShips

  http://www.gaychristian101.com/

  Heheh. The cartoon is great!

  BTS
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  Julia's words to me on Christ was that he was not concerned with homosexuality. It wasn't an issue for him. Many of today's Christians are hip to that. Just because someone long ago said God didn't like homosexuals, didn't make it true.
• 

  Rapunzel

  In regard to the bible, Mark Twain said - "It is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies." Twain also said that "when one reads Bibles, one is less surprised at what the Deity knows than at what He does not know."

  These two quotes provide a good summation indeed. As it was compiled and edited over a period of hundreds of years, the Bible is bound to contain some wisdom [as Nietzsche said - "We have inherited both the wisdom and the madness of a thousand generations."] However, the bible also contains a good deal of lies, nonsense, and even madness. Therefore, it can also exert an especially pernicious effect upon society due to its influence, which is often on the order of idolotry.

  In brief, the Bible is, for the most part, mythology; for the most part, it is what the ancient Greeks would term mythos [as opposed to logos]. Not all mythos is lies, although a lot is sheer nonsense.The ptroblem lies in how people interpret it, or - as is often the case - misinterpret it.

  Does anyone remember the anti-miscegination (sp? laws that were once common in the United States? They were laws which officially barred people of different races from marrying each other or engagng in sexual relations. Many states had such laws on the books. These laws were based on a misinterpretation of scripture. Many people viewed marriage between people of different races as something evil and forbidden. And they would use the Bible as justification.

  For me, it's a question of the ever-widening scope, the ever-broadening inclusiveness of American [and hopefully, Western] democracy. Hopefully, gay and lesbians will be able to enjoy the same civil and social rights as other people. It's been a long time coming. Hopefully, society is evolving for the better. In regard to the "big B" [the Bible], I would warn people to be on guard against the three "small b's" that despoil and contaminate the Bible - bunk; bilge; and bullshit. And if anyone would deprive homosexuals of the right to marry, a fundamental human right; if anyone scorns the basic values of liberal democracy, then I would invite such people to go somewhere else and form their own little theocracy with any artifically constructed god at the top.
• 

  digderidoo

  The problem is this: Humans have a sin scale, in the bible God does not.

  Humans have somehow determined that homosexuality is worse than heterosexual fornication. There are other sins as well that people will "rank." Society still feels that homosexuality is a higher ranked sin than many other more acceptable ones. For instance, alcoholism or gluttony would probably rank pretty low on most people's sin scales. Even adultery is often overlooked. But for some reason people stuck homosexuality at the top of the list, right up there with murder. Profanity and blaspheming speech is definitely way at the bottom of the list.

  Either Christ makes a way for sinners or he does not. If he does, then that should apply to all sins. If he doesn't then homosexuals be rejected along with every other human on the face of the earth.

  Interesting post, i can understand this line of thinking that God does not have a sin scale. However, the flaw with this line of argument is that a gay christian must accept that homosexuality is a sin.

  Paul