At risk - I dare a discussion of the gay lifestyle/human nature.

by AK - Jeff 64 Replies latest social relationships

• 

  PrimateDave

  To me the issue at hand isn't really homosexuality. The issue is a thought process that expresses itself in harmful ways.
  
  The woman on the radio felt fear of a book, or more specifically, the ideas presented by that book. Those ideas represented a contradiction to the "conversations" that run her mind. We all have conversations running our minds, and we receive those narratives from other humans throughout our lives. Naturally, the strongest narratives we carry are the ones we receive early on from our parents and siblings. Put all these narratives together and you have the "story" that is the sum of all your beliefs.
  
  One of the most primal fears is to be rejected by "the group". When such rejection occurs in early childhood, the effects can be quite traumatic. Imagine a small child who violates one of the conversations of his family. Let's say he takes more than his share of cake. The family has a strong "fairness" conversation like "taking more than your share of family resources is not fair to the rest of the family." As a punishment for violating this conversation, the child is isolated from the family for a period of time by being made to stand in the corner.
  
  These narratives are not universal among human cultures. Forced separation from human contact is common for children in many western cultures and is reinforced by several cultural narratives like "don't spoil the child with attention" or "the baby has to learn to sleep in its own bed". In other cultures we westerners like to call "primitive," babies are held in almost constant physical contact with parents and siblings. Every need of the child is attended to instantly, and its developing mind doesn't deal with the trauma of separation. Separation does come, but at the child's own pace, based on a sense of security, not fear. Anthropologists have even noted a kind of tactile "language" that develops between mother and child in these cultures.
  
  Now back to the woman on the radio show. Her fear is not of homosexuality per se, but of rejection. She belongs to a group that rejects members who follow certain sexual practices. She projects her childhood fear of rejection onto other children who she sees as pure and innocent. Of course, your sense of "purity" and "innocence" are very subjective things based on the conversations that are running your mind. In many cultures and throughout human pre/history, children have learned early on the pleasures that certain parts of their bodies can bring them. It is natural, to say the least. There is nothing inherently harmful in that exploration, but western culture has a strong "sex is dirty, sex is sin" narrative. Combine that with the "children are pure and innocent" and "sex is only for married people" narratives, and you begin to see the basis for this woman's fear.
  
  I wouldn't mind having a same sex partner, but at the same time I find it difficult to do so discreetly so as not to run afoul of the dominant cultural narratives and suffer rejection from the group. I suppose the solution is to find a group of like minded people with similar goals, but I have yet to take steps in that direction. I do not feel comfortable with the description "gay lifestyle".
  
  Dave
• 

  BizzyBee

  I started to respond to this thread yesterday, but couldn't quite get a handle on the issue.

  You mention books in school about the gay lifestyle.

  And gay marriage.

  My best friend of 25 years is a lesbian and I have no moral or religious problem with her gay lifestyle - clearly.

  Having said that, without more information about who what when where how, my first inclination about such books in school setting is negative. These books are available elsewhere for anyone (including children) who may need the information, so they are not being denied access to them. As high-school or college level curriculum, these books may have a place. In any case, getting these books from other sources puts parents in control and does not give the appearance of sanction by the school. I think it is important to be careful about feeding young impressionable minds controversial or complex social commentaries before they are mature enough to understand them. And parents have a right to make that call. However, I don't agree with the comments that include the words "God" or "abomination."

  Gay marriage. Hmmmmmm.......I don't see this as a "right" that has been denied to same-sex relationships, any more than I have a "right" to practice medicine or law or fly a plane as a lay person. Sometimes things that seemed like a good idea at the time have unexpected fall-out.

  It is not difficult to believe that gays and lesbians are just as compelled to their sexual orientation as heterosexuals. There should be no condemnation of them any more than people born with 6 fingers on one hand or one blue eye and one brown eye. It is "natural" - occuring in nature. And apparently 2 - 4% of the population is homosexual - and I'll bet that not one "chose" to be.

  Are we at two pages yet?
• 

  Junction-Guy

  Nope, still on page one.
• 

  flipper

  JEFF- Good subject by you ! Very well posted ! My wife has a nephew who is gay, and he and his partner have stayed at our house visiting, and they are lovely people. I have always felt comfortable around gays, especially after leaving the " mind control " view of them that the Watchtower society and Jehovah's Witnesses had. They are just like you and me, just have a different sexual preference is all. Not a big deal. Mrs. Flipper has done seamstress work for years for gay men, gay women, some of who have been dear friends for years in the area we live in. It is as natural for them to be gay; as it is for us to be heterosexual . It is the religious abuse they receive from self righteous , hypocritical smug alleged " Christians " which make life hard for them. If people would just mind their own business ; the world would be a better place. Live and let live. And let people live their personal lives how they want. Do we analyze our heterosexual friends in detail as we do our gay friends ? That's why it's called a " private life ".
  
  BIZZY BEE- In regards to your statement concerning gays that, " There should be no more condemnation of them any more than people born with 6 fingers on one hand or one blue eye or one brown eye. It is natural- occurring in nature. " Still - by comparing gays to people with 6 fingers or a person with opposite color eyes- I feel it is giving out a NEGATIVE connotation for being gay ! It somehow makes it seem that it is " unnatural" or like gays are an anomaly , rather than a healthy part of nature. Gays are how they are and it is nothing to be considered unnatural . It should be honored and accepted
• 

  Junction-Guy

  I don't know many gay people, I do know of one gay man and a few lesbians at work though. I think the lesbians are halfway cool, they are more direct and upfront.
  
  My overall experience with the gay community has not been positive at all, and I have learned a few things along the way.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Well, OM, your prediction seems off this time. Not getting much play.

  Many here are afraid to disagree with a forum assistant.

  I like everything you said in your opening comment, Jeff.
  Really, I am not just saying that.

  Coming out of the cult, I was able to put aside my judging of
  people as unworthy to inherit the kingdom. Now, I would
  love to be there at the California wedding. I am not totally
  over my slight nausea at watching two men petting, but I am
  totally over it for watching two women. But I don't mind that
  two men do that, I might still turn my head. That's all.
• 

  restrangled

  Jeff, I have several extended family members who are "Gay". I learned about it when I was 10 years old....that would have been 1969.....some in Bethel.

  I don't think badly of them at all unless I see the following: A grown man acting like a hormonal teenager in front of someone they find attractive.....it sickens me.

  This is what I don't understand, and it just may be my own experience. Why do grown men, who are intelligent and articulate, turn into drooling, limp wristed idiots in front of young handsome men? Gay or not. I expect it from teenagers between male and female but not grown men.

  I don't understand the obsession with gay pride marches.

  I don't understand the lesbian thing at all......the butch tough attitude. Short shaved haircuts etc.

  I hired a lesbian only lawn company many years ago to redo our lawn. They were all toughy looking. One of the neighbor fellows, saw all these girls and came over with his shirt off, looking to make a hit, I'm sure. They all played the game and then spent the next 2 days making fun of him.

  He was and idiot for doing that, and I thought they were mean playing him out.

  I guess games cross both gender and sexual preferance lines, .......but I still feel adults should have a little more self control infront of others what ever side of the team you are on.

  r.
• 

  JK666

  Jeff,

  A very good topic! Those of us that were raised in the Borg were trained to be homophobic, along with all the other xenophobic dogma. So we really can't beat ourselves up for starting life out that way. We were inculcated from youth, as they like to brag about.

  I grew an open mind as a young man, and questioned this along with all the other sexually repressive teachings of the organization. Most of them sprang from an old geezer virgin's interpretation of what homosexuals or prostitutes would do. Are you imitating something that would go on a house of prostitution? Don't you know masturbation will turn you gay? That crap scared me when I was young, but proved too ridiculous to believe as an adult.

  So, thank God the blinders are off, and we can have a normal perspective. By the way, the ad at the bottom of the page for Gay Chubby Dating is a hoot. Where and the heck are ads for Straight Chubby Dating? I feel discriminated against!

  JK
• 

  Junction-Guy

  I don't have any gay family members, nor have I known alot of gay people, the few that I have known have been from JWD or another board. So my knowledge of the gay community is probably limited.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Why do grown men, who are intelligent and articulate, turn into drooling, limp wristed idiots in front of young handsome men? Gay or not.

  Not surprising. Straight men turn into drooling idiots in front of a hot young babe.