The Friends Ain't So Friendly (page 4)

milligal

Layla-I get what you are saying. I am a psych major but pre-law so I am not looking to practice psychology. A lot of what you are saying is dead on with what I have studied also. I have not yet taken religious psychology but I believe you are correct that what is haapening among the JW community has to be identified and labled. It's not okay, and there are those that have a kind bone in their bodies, but there are more who don't. Good post.

OnTheWayOut

Saying, "I was just following orders," doesn't wash with any of us for the Nazis.

You need to read about cognitive dissonance to get a better understanding.
Recommended reading is MISTAKES WERE MADE: BUT NOT BY ME.

The average Nazi was a soldier on the front line attacking/defending against
the average soldiers on the other side. They were both just following orders.
He was not a terrible murderer.

There were some horrendous war criminals that butchered Jews in the concentration
camps, and there were those that stood by. But there were plenty of non-Nazi
examples that would similarly have been standing by, including Americans, Chinese,
Brits, virtually every group.

I cannot equate shunners with sadistic Nazis. Even though shunning your grandchildren is
dispicable, the point was made that many of us were loyal party members to the WTS.
We know the loyalty strain because of cognitive dissonance. We join interogators who
make innocent people confess, jokers that make a certain group the butt of their jokes
regardless of the harm, Americans who hate torture but approve it for revealing terrorist
actions, those who turn a blind eye to injustice. They are not sadistic Nazis.

The average JW who shuns family or former friends is just programmed that way. There
may be some who enjoy this cruel practice, but the vast majority are in deep anguish.
Hate the practice and not the victim of programming.

Quandry

think that, if people have any goodness in them, any divine spark, any human decency, they won't be able to remain in the Borg.

I will have to say, that I was a sincere JW. I was interested in serving God. That few of the people in the world saw "the truth" only made it more lofty to me. If others left, I took hook line and sinker the WT dogma that they wanted to be worldly and turn their backs on God. When someone was df'd, I just knew that every effort had been made to keep them in, etc.

I wasn't trying to be mean. I think many others feel the same way. Sometimes it just takes something personal being done to them. I know that's what happened in my family's case. Otherwise, I might still be in....scary thought.

That's why it is so hard...if many could only know...

JWdaughter

I have had mixed feelings about this whole thread. My sister and I have noted that in recent years my mom has shown so much venom and hate towards anyone who crosses her. We don't remember this about her when we were children. We have attributed it to losing our Dad . . .though it was started for some time before his illness. But it is as if losing him made her lose all her kindness towards strangers. She can like dogs, but people who piss her off she will never forgive.

Maybe she is the mean spirited person who likes to feel superior and doesn't really care if she is right or wrong-but has decided to assume she is right and go with that in mind.

OTOH, I think of JWs that I think do show a kind and loving spirit-even as JWs. But the one I really know to say anything about-I knew her before she was a JW and she was a totally nice person then. She still is. My mom brought her and her husband into the org. But as nice as Shirley is, for some reason, these former BFF's no longer have anything to do with each other. They moved to the same neighborhood when I was 9, always were in the same hall till my mid -twenties. Something happened. Maybe our old neighbor realized that my mom wasnt really a nice person. . .I don't know. So, does Shirley stay in because she believes it is right? Or because her husband is now an elder? Or her kids and grandkids are still in? I don't know if she is trapped or willing or just deeply in a cult and is clueless.

I would hate to paint folks with a broad brush, specially since most of us were IN the org. for some time, and some here still are. We know the reason most here are still in. Maybe until we know someone is 'evil' we should assume their intents are actually benevolent. It will temper our words and attitudes when dealing with and speaking to them. If someone is just bad-we respond to what they actually do, not what we think may be in their heads.

sammielee24

Gee, I was a JW my whole life, and I never ignored a df'd person with a flat tire, delighted in the impending death of anyone, treated anybody in a cruel or heartless manner, or did anything remotely heinous or "Nazi-ish".

I think there are exceptions..In general though, I tend to believe most people who are conned into the society, have an emotional or mental weakness that leaves them open to manipulation. Once in for a while, they may end up married, having kids and converting their other family members into it and then by the time they realize that it is a con job, they feel trapped by the family relationship. The flat tire example - I don't doubt it for a minute and I've heard of the same sort of thing going on. I believe that the JW's as a whole, with their black and white, us vs them, good vs evil mentality, are hardnosed, often bordering on cruel. They follow orders to cut off families, spy on people, punish what they see as wrong doings and in general support without question, their leadership. In that way, I believe she is comparing them to Nazi's who killed without question on the orders of their leaders, who spied on people, who even turned in their own families...sammieswife.

Alwayshere

I think that, if people have any goodness in them, any divine spark, any human decency, they won't be able to remain in the Borg.

My thoughts exactly, StAnn.

StAnn

My sister and I have noted that in recent years my mom has shown so much venom and hate towards anyone who crosses her.

JWdaughter, I have seen the same thing. I think that's why this is bothering me so much. Maybe with the WTS turning the screws even tighter and placing even more control over the R&F, they're feeling more stressed and lashing out more at those of us who escaped.

Personally, I was in the grocery store several years ago and saw a disfellowshipped woman. I pretended not to know her and didn't speak to her. It was very awkward and I'm ashamed of it, but I still did it. I'm sure it hurt her. She was in my bookstudy group. So I see myself as having been a participant in the wrongdoing when I was in. I think I reached a point where I decided that I had to do what I KNEW was right in my heart, not what I was told was right by the GB. I think, sometimes, people KNOW what is right but CHOOSE to do what the WTS says anyway so as not to make waves. To choose to intentionally hurt other people because it makes life easier for me is wrong, in my black and white world.

independent_tre

Most if not all on this thread were involved to some extent with JW's. Everyone's hindsight is 20/20.

It's not fair to broadly categorize many of the people still involved as heartless nazi's with a superiority complex. In fact I'd say the majority aren't mean spirited or even blind to the problems in the org. Even though I'm fading, and may one day be completely out, I'd have a hard time looking back, pointing the finger and saying, "HA!, I've left and therefore I am way more morally upright than anyone who's still in! How blind and by extension, evil, you are".

Who would have the superiority complex then?

HSS1971

I remember whenever I'd notice Df'd people, whether in the Hall or on the street, I'd feel sorry for them only because there was a whole group of people that all of a sudden disinheirited them. I never felt sorry for them because I thought God disapproved of them. I always wanted to speak with them and say "Hey there, how are you doing ?" but I was somehow afraid that it would get back to the elders and I'd get DF'd myself over it. Turns out I should have talked with them because I ended up getting Df'd anyways. My point is this, personally, I never felt I was somehow superior or better than DF'd people.

After I was DF'd, my wife and I got back together for a short while. Her 20 year old daughter, who was also a jw moved in with us because she was too lazy to work a full time job. Her and I would talk and joke around at the house and act like we were the best of friends. One day I started out to work and started to cross the street. She was crossing also walking past me. She did'nt say "hi" or even a "good morning" to me but she just half smiled. I remember thinking I just wanted to slap that hypocrate right across her face that day.

I still cannot figure out how someone can just turn it off like a light switch just because 3 UNqualified men decide someone should not be talked to. It's inhuman. I cannot find any trace of humanity in the jw cult.

sammielee24

I think that, if people have any goodness in them, any divine spark, any human decency, they won't be able to remain in the Borg.

But when a JW is in, they do believe that they are good and decent people. The problem is that their world is small, so they only compare with what is around them and they believe that as the only true Christians, that they are indeed superior and more moral than any other people. Every JW must believe that if they are an active member in good standing or else they would not judge all other people as evil, greedy, unprincipled and lacking any morals - if they do think otherwise and choose to remain inside, going in field service and trying to con others into joining the society, then we, on the outside question their decency and sense of values. sammieswife.

The Friends Ain't So Friendly

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