The Friends Ain't So Friendly

by StAnn 53 Replies latest jw friends

  • milligal
    milligal

    onthewayout-interestingly my ex husband and I studied with a man who was a former nazi. The way he explained it, was that he was raised without religion or even bibles and he was forced into Hitler's youth group-attendance was mandatory. If he missed a meeting SS would show up at his parents house. Hmmmm that sounds an awful lot like...

    Anyway point being, this former Nazi felt totally like he had no choice and was programmed from an early age. So where do we draw the line here? At what point do we excuse and at what point to we hold accountable?

  • StAnn
    StAnn
    Even though I'm fading, and may one day be completely out, I'd have a hard time looking back, pointing the finger and saying, "HA!, I've left and therefore I am way more morally upright than anyone who's still in! How blind and by extension, evil, you are".

    IT~If they are blind it is not necessarily by extension that they are evil. The problem is with the ones aren't blind, who do know there is a problem with the WTS but they stay and condemn others who won't go along with the lies.

    Case in point. I know a man who was DF'd and then reinstated. He has stated to family that he doesn't believe all the teachings but he just enjoys the fellowship of being a JW. He really missed the JW lifestyle when he was out. Right now, his goal in life is to become an MS. (He was an elder when he was DF'd.) He is being very anal about how his congregation perceives him because he wants an appointment. His daughter, who is DF'd, was raped and is in desperate straits. Her rape left her pregnant. He refuses to help her AT ALL because he says that, if he does, it will reflect badly on him with the congregation and he won't be reappointed. He did, however, call her to remind her to go to the Memorial this year and has hinted that, if she'll tow the line and get reinstated, he might help her out.

    I'm sorry but, in my eyes, that is cruel, cold, calculating, and evil. To abandon your daughter because you want to be a Ministerial Servant is not just blind or cult think. I'm sure no one at the KH knows he is doing this to his daughter, so he appears to be a great guy. And I also know that he is not alone in this kind of cold, heartless conduct toward DF'd family in dire need.

    StAnn

  • StAnn
    StAnn
    Every JW must believe that if they are an active member in good standing or else they would not judge all other people as evil, greedy, unprincipled and lacking any morals - if they do think otherwise and choose to remain inside, going in field service and trying to con others into joining the society, then we, on the outside question their decency and sense of values.

    sammieswife~my point exactly. you say it so much better than I do!

    StAnn

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    Case in point. I know a man who was DF'd and then reinstated. ...... His daughter, who is DF'd, was raped and is in desperate straits. Her rape left her pregnant. He refuses to help her AT ALL

    That does make this one man a lowlife. Assuming you have the story right,
    he is putting personal goals ahead of real family crisis needs. That doesn't
    make the average JW who was DF'ed and reinstated the same way.

    People are basically good, but many are misguided. Look for the good in
    people until you know otherwise. Sure, one bad apple can make the bunch
    look bad, but look beyond that.

  • independent_tre
    independent_tre
    And I also know that he is not alone in this kind of cold, heartless conduct toward DF'd family in dire need.

    StAnn - But isn't that case a bit extreme, or does/did every JW you know/knew behave as cold, calculating individuals that are simply trying to get ahead? In your previous examples, the JWs did not practice shunning knowing or thinking it was dispicable. In fact, they believed that they were doing the right thing. ( where I believe the real problem lies, not in people being inherently evil ) . Many have absolutely nothing to gain by participating in shunning behavior, but everything to lose if they don't. Like so many other R&F witnesses, they are caught between a rock and a hard place and don't know what else to do. Most probably have not been on this site or been enlightened by reading anti-witness material.

    I just don't feel right sitting as judge and jury and condemning folks( as evildoers) when I don't know what's going on in their heads or why they behave in such a way. I'm leaving an organization that instills this type of sweeping condemnation of folks and I have no desire to hold on to that type of good/evil, black/white us vs. them mentality.

  • StAnn
    StAnn
    isn't that case a bit extreme, or does/did every JW you know/knew behave as cold, calculating individuals that are simply trying to get ahead?

    IT~No, it is not true that every JW I know/knew is that cold and calculating. However, a lot of them are. I've been surprised by the sides of people I've been allowed to see now that I'm no longer a JW. It's as if they know they have nothing to lose now if they do things in front of me because, even if I "told" the elders in their congregation what they've done, I have no credibility, so they are much more blatant now than they ever were when I was an insider.

    I'll only share my personal experiences here:

    My ex-husband is an elder and his wife is a pioneer. My ex- and I have a son, now 25 years old. When he was 17, our son was DF'd for smoking. On his 18th birthday, while he was still a senior in high school, his pioneer stepmom told him that he was never to step foot in her house or speak to her again. She said that she had an obligation to him until he was 18 and now that was over. Until he was reinstated he was not allowed back in her house. She did this on his 18th birthday and said this in front of me. She told him to get all of his things out and go. To this day, his dad sneaks and goes to see him behind her back. (Good for him. The one good thing I can say about my ex-husband is that he loves our son dearly.)

    My mother, also a super-JW, had serious surgery and almost died. None of my siblings could/would help care for her, so my dad asked me to move in and care for her until he retired. I quit my job, gave up my apartment, and my dad convinced me to give my furniture to my uncle rather than pay storage. I got room and board and $100/mo. spending money. I cared for her round the clock with no help. One day, after she had somewhat recovered, my mother went to an assembly or special talk or something with two of my JW siblings. When she got home that day, she got out of the car and told me that she could care for herself now and, thus, I had to get out. Right then. That day, actually that hour. She was on fire for "the truth." I had nowhere to go, as I'd given up everything to take care of her. I stayed in my car that night (it was February in the Midwest) and then moved into an abandoned gas station for a few months until I could get a job and then get an apartment, both of which I'd given up for her. My wonderful, self-righteous JW siblings (who hadn't cared for her for even one hour after she came home from the hospital or even cooked us one meal) were proud of her for standing up for what was "right", which they'd put her up to, of course. (This is my same brother who is an elder.) My mother felt that it was okay for me to be there to care for her when she really needed me but heaven forbid she give me two weeks to find a job when she was done using me. What would the elders say about her allowing me to live in her house once she could wipe her own a@s?

    My mother is a pillar in her KH and considered to be one of the sweetest people anyone there has ever met. She goes around and picks up all the old people at nursing homes and drives them to the meetings.

    My mother has only one sibling, a brother. I saw her literally jump up and down and clap her hands when she found out he'd been disfellowshipped for smoking because she couldn't stand him and now she had an excuse not to visit him or speak to him ever again. She had to endure him for awhile (family business) when their mother was dying. Now that Granny is dead, she hasn't seen him or spoken to him.

    My oldest brother DA'd himself. He came home from work one night to discover his house had caught on fire and burned down. Literally. He went to my other brother's house a couple of miles away (I have four brothers) and my sister-in-law refused to let him in because there was an elder and his family living next door! How would it look to have a DA'd man in the house overnight, she said? This s-i-l was a pioneer at the time. That is cold and calculating, thinking only of how one looks to people in the congregation, and not caring at all about familial responsibilities.

    Frankly, many people (ex-JWs) who knew me are so appalled by how my family has treated me that they will come to me to commisserate when their family does horrible things to them. I think that's why I know so many horrible stories. I think there are lots of people at the KH that we think are salt of the Earth who are living a double life, with one side they show to the brothers/sisters at the KH and another side they unleash on "worldly" family members who have no power over them.

    Again, not everybody at the KH is a monster. But there are probably more of them than many of us would believe there are. I've been shocked that some people I really loved growing up have turned out to be pedophiles. With one man in particular, he was so nice, I wouldn't have believed it if he weren't serving a prison term.

  • StAnn
    StAnn
    Assuming you have the story right,

    I do. I was just speaking to her tonight and re-confirmed the details.

  • BabaYaga
    BabaYaga

    Holy crap, St. Ann. I see now how you got Saint status... just dealing with the blows dealt by your family.

    Those situations present them as being absolutely poisonous and uncaring. Sorry I said that, it is not right for someone else to say that about one's kin, but seriously, that treatment was HARSH. It sounds like you have some relatives with some SERIOUS PERSONALITY DISORDERS.

    I am happy to say I have only known one JW that was as horrible as that, and that was not because she was JW, but rather, because she was a clinical case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Absolute poison.

    I am sorry for your experiences. I think that poisonous people LOVE the organization because it gives them carte blanche to look down on everyone in the world and treat them like crap. This is sad, and well, gross, actually. And I would love to think you are correct, that anyone who has a spark will leave it. My beloved ones have sparks... and they are still in. And yes, they are victims.

    Love,
    Baba.

  • StAnn
    StAnn

    Baba, one of my brother's who is still in has a pretty severe learning disability. I see him as a victim because he really can't reason it out on his own. He depends upon our mother's guidance. I feel really sorry for him. He's like a little lost puppy dog.

    Actually, the picture to the left is of him and me when we were six and four years-old, respectively.

    I wish the best for your family!

    StAnn

  • BabaYaga
    BabaYaga

    Aw, thank you for sharing that about the pic, Hon! How sweet.

    All the best to you, Love.

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