My theory about the behavior and obsession of some ex-JWs

by Simon 135 Replies latest jw friends

  • Simon
    Simon
    I could never be convinced that born-ins like myself deserve what we got for wanting a normal existence.

    No, of course not. Like most things in life there are no black and whites, just shades of gray.

    The example you give, to me, would not justify DFing but I'm aware of an elder having an affair with a married woman in the cong. which was really taking advantage of her emotional state and marriage problems (due to his position). Some would find that acceptable, some would think the line is drawn somewhere between the two.

    I don't want to get into trying to define the rights and wrongs of particular cases but I think we can agree that there are circumstances where the rules broken warrant removal. We will all probably disagree on which exact rules warrant it or not of course.

  • FreudianSlip
    FreudianSlip
    we can agree that there are circumstances where the rules broken warrant removal.

    True, true.

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Bendrr,

    I've already made two posts in this thread about how disfellowshipping is the punishment given for lack of repentance, and it is really more for a lack of repentance than for the "sin" itself.

    So on an ex-JW forum, to make such a statement that some deserved to be disfellowshipped, that is going to generate some controversy. It isn't Simon's entire post, which I took for what he said it was, just the one small portion we have all been discussing. I'm not arguing with him or you; he himself said it was a sweeping generalization and a theory, just joining in with my own opinion for whatever it is worth.

    Well, it might only sound controversial to an XJW, and that is because they might not quite get the point of what is being written.

    What is being said is NOT that the reasons for these people being removed from the WTS are morally justified, good, or fair, but that the person was removed for not being able to abide by the rules of the religion. It is the same reasoning used by the Legal System in dealing with the shunning rule. Judges have have concluded, and stated in some cases, "silly reason to shun someone, but these are the rules and you knew those when you got baptized".

    Where the WTS is concerned, it is certain that these rules are often applied prejudicially, unfairly and imperfectly, but they generally are only applied when rules are broken. Same as any website that has moderation that only reacts to broken rules of some sort or the other, and they may be equally insane as are many WTS rules. Rules may be applied prejudicially, unfairly and imperfectly, but unlike the WTS this would damage the emotions only of a person who is emotionally unstable to begin with and who is better off perhaps investing emotionally in other venues. After all, this is not life and death as 'Armaggedon' and 'Theocracy' was. This is just a discussion Board run by imperfect people, nothing more or less, and it has never pretended to be the way to eternal life. We are just one click away from getting out or getting in.

    Perhaps too many XJW's are suffering under some illusion that there is a sort of XJW 'brotherhood', which is nonsense (all we have in common is that we were once JW's), and feel that somehow if they are taken to task on a discussion board it is like being castigated by the elders in a Kingdom Hall and if unsubscribed, that they feel 'shunned' again. I have seen this argued on numerous occasions on this Board.

    If that is the case, they need to talk to a professional who can help them come to terms with this delusion. It is not realistic. If they are pained by this, they will find real life without the WTS panacea, very hard to live with.

    Cheers - HS

  • tijkmo
    tijkmo

    this is the rule......no repentant person will be disfellowshipped..(regardless of their 'sin')

    this is the fact........repentant people are disfellowshipped.

    i know... i was that soldier....i was wrong ..what i did was despicable and broke the organizational rules. i was so ashamed that i did not fight being disfellowshipped.

    but subsequently i realised that i was not a wanton willful wrongdoer. and i then realised that the treatment i received was not godly or christlike or biblical .OR EVEN ORGANIZATIONAL - ACCORDING TO THEIR RULES... and worst of all it wasnt humane.

    i have tried not to be bitter...which is hard when you are alone bewildered hurt and desperate. i have since helped others in similar situations who needed support when they were df-ed or who came to me for help to stop them being df-ed (i told them to lie lie lie - and it worked).

    i have defended the wt organization on certain things and individual jws on other things in the same way as i would defend other individuals and organizations even tho i have no wish to be associated with them.

    i have met other x jws that i have liked..and some that i have not (the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend).

    i have no interest in what people choose to believe if it works for them. i have no interest in trying to get my family out. i would even go back if i were to marry a jw and she wanted me to..even as i would go to other things that she was interested in because i loved her

    but i wouldnt believe it (which would be fun i think)

    and i still believe in a creator tho i dont care that i do.

    and the only people i hate are the 2 members of the commitee who refused to reinstate me for so long....and irony of ironies i find myself hoping for some kind of god given recompence for them from an organization that i no longer consider to be directed by god. and that messes with my head from time to time.

    tijkmo

  • caliber
    caliber
    simply transfer their resentment and anger to whoever is responsible and possibly the ex-JW community as a whole (or those who frown on the unwanted behavior).

    I think Simon is trying to make a very simple point that is being muddied and dissected needlessly. The old

    expression that some people are just being "mad at the world " seems to apply here.

    Caliber

  • dinah
    dinah

    It seems that Simon is just trying to say we don't have some magical brotherhood of ex-JWs. The df'd vs. walk away theory doesn't work for me. Some people just can't play well with others. Those kind of people exist in the congregations as well.

    While I was in I saw many many people get away with things and others get the boot for lesser offenses. We had two elders who were abusive to their children and the others just looked the other way. I saw two marriages break up due to adultery within the congregation. One couple was just reproved and allowed to marry. I was stunned.

  • FreudianSlip
    FreudianSlip
    some people are just being "mad at the world " seems to apply here.

    Can't always blame them either..

    I was absolutely one of those people who was "mad at the world". How else was I to feel when everyone that ever "loved" me turned their back on me?

    I tend to think even if a person breaks every JW rule in the book, they have the right to be hurt and in pain.. and angry.

  • wednesday
    wednesday

    yes evidence of God's spirit, Df a teen for smoking, private reproof for a rapist.

  • Eliveleth
    Eliveleth

    Grace,

    I am and will be an ex-JW for the same reasons. I have long since distanced myself from the WT thinking.

    Your heart is so precious. I know that no one would ever think you have anything but the purest motives for

    what you do.

    My take on disfellowshipping: There may be reasons for some in the congregation not to associate with someone who

    is hurting people by their conduct. I think it is wrong for it to be an organization's decision. Individuals who were hurt

    might want to not associate with that person, but the total shunning for at least a year and breaking up families who do not associate

    with or even speak to brothers, sisters, parents, etc is totally wrong and was not even hinted at in any place in the Bible. And threatening

    them with disfellowshipping themselves if they do not follow the WT rules is unconscionable.

  • caliber
    caliber

    I tend to think even if a person breaks every JW rule in the book, they have the right to be hurt and in pain.. and angry.

    Angry yes... but at whom or what and for what reason ? If your husband cheats on you ,your're angry so why

    not kick your dog in the head on the way out the door.? ...... hey you got a right to be angry !

    Caliber

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