HERE'S A BOMBSHELL ABOUT THE 144,000 DOCTRINE......

by Mary 82 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Sarah Smiles
    Sarah Smiles
    In Matthew 19:28, Jesus tells his apostles that in "the re-creation" they would "sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." The question is: Who are the "twelve tribes of Israel"?

    In Matthew 19:27 Jesus is talking to Peter not the 144,000. Mary you are right, how could Peter judge himself?

    In the 90s, during one of my elders meeting to get reinstated I thought I was expressing that I paid attention during the Sunday talk by explaining that Jesus was answering Peter questions. (I just assumed that the elder given the talk was just throwing stuff in to see if people were listening) Right away, elder Bob Card, said that he could not reinstate me because I did not believe that the 144,000, WTBTS, are Gods spiritual Israelites. I did not say that at all the only thing I noticed is that the person giving the talk said that it was the 144,000 in Mathew 19:28. I just said it was Peter and the disciples. That cost me a couple more years of sitting in the back row! It just that the guy giving the Sunday talk said that scripture was referring to 144,000. I said that it did not because Jesus was answering Peters question. Bob Card had too much power over the people as well as this group of elders! John Mitchell a very nice guy spoke up and said I was right. Another depressed elder Owen said he knew 8,800 living anointed. Now who really appeared confused and full of Gods Holy Spirit?

    Now as far as I am concerned, Jesus was speaking to his disciples and they will be sitting on 12 thrones and will judge the Old Testament tribes! I can not change Jesus saying to fit a man made doctrine!

    Also, does the word sealed in Revelation 7 mean anything to the WTBTS? In Johns vision (96 C.E. "smirk") for the future he sees the 144,000 sealed past tense! already sealed! These are the ones already sealed!

    Good research Mary! Thanks for the memories!

    I

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex

    I don't have a lot to add, I've forgotten so much about JW doctrine now I'm practically useless. I'll agree with Leolaia -- nice find Mary!

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    Great find Mary!

    RE: 24 elders. John was talking to them in Revelation yet they weren't supposed to be there until 1918...Huh?

  • passwordprotected
    passwordprotected

    Nice find, Mary! Keep them coming.

  • Mary
    Mary
    There are 12 thrones and 12 apostles. It seems to me that Jesus was talking to the apostles and telling them they would sit on the thrones. How would 144,000 people sit on 12 thrones. The great crowd ( or the 144,000 ) would be the ones that the apostles would judge

    They actually could have gotten away with this explanation without even really changing the doctrine that the 144,000 are a "literal" number. However, I did ask this very question years ago and the answer I got was that 'there is no indication that any other group besides the 144,000 go to heaven. If the 24 elders or 12 apostles were an additional group that went to heaven, then that would render the literal number of 144,000 as obsolete'.

    Gee.....ya think??? In other words, rather than accept the fact that Revelation clearly talks about various groups going to heaven, the Society refuses to acknowledge that there are other groups mentioned going to heaven, for no other reason other than it would throw off their own bizarre (not to mention, groundless) theory on the subject.

    Its amazing how the 144K are in heaven standing before THEMSELVES (24 elders) singing a song that nobody else can master. Yet the 144K arent all their yet because this happened in 1914 - BUT the 144K is so sure to happen that it is AS IF THEY ARE THERE! So that is why even though some of the 144K arent even born yet (helll some of their parents arent even born yet) but they are there in heaven way back in 1914 singing before themselves in heaven !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I remember when we were studying this stupid book in the 90s and this point came up. I thought "that doesn't make any damn sense......How can one group of people be in front of another group that is said to be the same damn group??" That's even crazier than the doctrine of the trinity, IMO........Even my aunt put up her hand and said "I'm sorry, but I just don't understand that one at all...." The bookstudy conductor really had no answer and just moved on......I found out last night that this same aunt warned Delilah to "be careful" of her association with me because "she's made some comments about the Truth" that were not in-line with the Society's teachings. Shocker there eh?

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    Let me get this straight. The 144K in Rev 14 are singing a "new song" and this was supposed to happen in 1914? That can't be right.

    None of the 144,000 were supposed to arrive in heaven until around 1918, 3.5 years after Christ's presence supposedly began. The WT position is that no humans entered heaven until then. I wonder how many chronological inconsistencies this creates.

  • gumby
    gumby

    K, as soon as I take my nap I'm gonna find a reasonable answer to this apostate Mary chick. There will always be those who try to undermine the food we recieve from the Slave Class and try to pervert it with lies and a play on words. Damn apostate whores of Satan! Just wait till my naps over with!!.... < punches Mary in her apostate lyin lips

    *Takes nap and dreams of wrestling with mary*o0O

    Gumhornyvigilante

  • shamus100
    shamus100

    Gumby,

    You old bastard! How the hell are you?

  • minimus
    minimus

    I just asked my mother. After I told her what the Society says.....she suddenly responds, "Well that makes sense".

  • minimus
    minimus

    Well Gumby, I miss ya!!

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