Matthew Makes Another Error

by JosephAlward 109 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Pom, you're wearing to talk to as I find you have an unchristian attitude...

    "I said my "gut feeling" (there was no accusation) because you seem bent and bitter in a sexually perverted way. That is often the case with "victims." If not, my apologies."

    Look at those pretty little quotes around the word victim. Are you implying what I think you are? What religious denomination are you now? Unreformed Mysogynist?

    As for the creation account in the Bible being wrong, well, answer the above question. If you think what I think you think, your mysogyny will be far more a pressing subject. I hope I'm wrong, by the way.

    Until then, well, the order things were created in is not consistant with fossil evidence. That's one, there's loads, but your answer will be illuminating.

    People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    >>Pom, you're wearing to talk to as I find you have an unchristian attitude...<<

    I'll let God judge me. You can sit down.

    >>Look at those pretty little quotes around the word victim. Are you implying what I think you are?<<

    No implication. What you see is what I meant.

    >>What religious denomination are you now?<<

    What difference would it make?

    >>Unreformed Mysogynist?

    misogynist, you spelled it wrong. Down to name calling now are we?

    >>As for the creation account in the Bible being wrong, well, answer the above question.<<

    Done.

    >>If you think what I think you think, your mysogyny will be far more a pressing subject. I hope I'm wrong, by the way.<<

    Spelled it wrong again. You should be careful with the big words you can't spell. They reveal a lot about you.

    >>Until then, well, the order things were created in is not consistant with fossil evidence. That's one, there's loads, but your answer will be illuminating.<<

    You are incorrect.

    Merry Christmas.

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Goodbye Pom.

    Thank you for your advice on spelling.

    I would normally expect a more complete refutation of the point I made regarding the fossil record contradicting the Genesis account. Your failure to engage in a debate is disappointing and I quite honestly can't be bothered dragging responses out of you.

    If god is anything like you think he is, then we are ALL in deep deep trouble when it comes to being judged. But you seem to be the judgemental one; "That is often the case with "victims."

    People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    >>I would normally expect a more complete refutation of the point I made regarding the fossil record contradicting the Genesis account.<<

    In order for you to claim you made a point you would have to present some evidence based on fact, ie like; palaeontologist Dr. So and So has found in this particular layer of sedimentary fossiliferous rock, somewhere around the Cambrian period, this, this and this, which totally undermines that that and that. Did you ever debate in school?

    >>Your failure to engage in a debate is disappointing and I quite honestly can't be bothered dragging responses out of you.<<

    You lack of point is why there can be no counterpoint.

    The failure is yours, I believe.

    PS. No need to respond, as it is clear your only objective is malignity and malevolence.

    Merry Christmas

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    I am still very troubled you use quotation marks round the word victim, when talking about people who have been raped, and then refuse to clarify whether of not you are a misogynist, instead concentrating on my spelling.

    In fact if you hadn't been so rude I would have not bothered replying, as I see no possible outcome other than you becoming increasingly abusive and hypocritical. But I'm going to ignore it... I apologise if I have in any way insulted you and caused you to return like for like, I'll try to, what's the saying... turn the other cheek...? and hope you do the same.

    Here's what Genesis says, maybe you'll listen to that;

    1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    Now, I will assume you are an old Earth creationist. If you are a new Earth creationist, please say... I need a laugh... but no doubt to you this is a timeless period of time, no contradiction to science there. Fine.

    2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
    4. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
    Okay, now, no doubt you will go into the Hebrew if I point out that we have light before sources of light, fine, you can argue that so it seems scientifically sound to you.

    6. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
    Ah, day two we have problems... water above and water below? You're not going to talk about the thermosphere are you? You might, but you have no proof even if you do, but hell, I said I was going to point out the order of creation was wrong, so we'll ignore little problems with physics, for now...

    9. And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11. And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13. And the evening and the morning were the third day.
    Ah, I'm feeling charitable; we'll assume this is a theoretical observer's view point, and that thus we miss out on smaller organisms, and we'll ignore the types of plants that are not even mentioned, we'll ignore that the light reaching the surface is so dim you can't even see a solar disc (assuming you go for the Borg line of the Hebrew word in vs. 16 being create in the progresive sense), we're doing fine. Maybe all the plants were shade loving species back then? Very scientific.

    14. And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15. And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18. And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
    Funny, I always thought that axial rotation defined night and day, as orbital rotation defines years, but despite it SOUNDING like this person thinks the lights are responsible for this, we'll assume this is not un-scientific. At least we can now see what's going on properly, eh? Those plants must be happy!

    20. And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21. And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22. And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23. And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
    Ah, well, here we have whales being created before land animals. Fossil evidence shows this is not true (they probably evolved from a land animal similar to a Hippo). We have birds being created before the land animals. Fossil evidence shows this is not true (they probably evolved from dinosaurs). So, even if we assume that the fossil record does not support evolution, we have no bird or whale bones older than the land animals that are meant to have been created after them. So, the Genesis account does not give the right order of creation, so the Bible is not perfect, or not meant to be taken literally. For proof, well, hell, what were you doing in science lessons? This is covered in any decent Biology textbook!

    24. And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
    26. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31. And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
    So we have the land animals being created, and man... and no major problems with these being the last in the order of things, apart from the fact, as pointed out above, that the Bible says things we know only lived AFTER the land animals were apparently made BEFORE.

    A small problem? My point Pom, is that your interpretation of god, based upon your apparently literal interpretation of the Bible, cannot be taken as definative or even better than mine, as the Bible is demonstrably (Genesis Chp 1. Vrs 20 is only the first example) either uninspired or not meant to be taken literally.

    I would love to see you prove the contrary.

    Light and love to you...

    People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...

  • dubl_a
    dubl_a

    pom-

    you are very quick to point out contradictions.....i was wondering about an obvious contradiction in your first post(just saw this thread btw):

    Isn't it amazing how Mr. Joe doesn't know that "Azariah" is the same individual as "Uzziah?"
    Uzziah = Amaziah, same guy.
    ????

    aa

  • RWC
    RWC

    I have been reading this thread and must respond.

    First, Pom's view of sin is basically correct by my beliefs. God created a perfect world. Man disobeyed him and caused sin to come into the world. We are all born into sin and the wages of sin are death. If God left it there it would not seem just, but he didn't. He gave us all a way out through Jesus. By believing in Him we will have enternal life in Heaven. Death on earth because of sin, eternity in paradise due to faith in Jesus Christ. That is the way it works.

    And to think that God doesn't understand our pain is to ignore the Biblical account of Jesus and his death. If you believe that Jesus was God as he proclaimed to be, than God came down to earth as a man and voluntarily experienced the pain of torture and death as the complete sacrifice for all of us. That is the truest expression of love that can ever be, to give up your life for another.

    By the way, why is it that you think we die in the first place? Is death simply a result of evolution not getting it right up to now and if we wait long enough we will evolve to the point that we don't die? That simply doesn't make any sense.

    Second, evolution is not the answer to the creation of the earth. In fact, most scientist who have studied the origions of life have reached the conclusion that there must be a creator. The odds against a sea of chemicals swirling around in such a manner to form amino acids and than proteins and than single cell organisms and than ultimantly all of the different types of animals and plants we have on earth today are astronomical. In fact, no scientist has been able to answer how it would happen, much less how DNA would be created. Evolution as the origions of life has been completely defeated.

    The Bible has been proven over and over that it is accurate. There has never been an archeloigial find that has contradicted the Bible. On the contray finds prove it to be accurate.

    The main theme of the Bible is Love. Love of God for mankind. Instructions for us to Love God. Instructions for us to Love one another. We just don't always follow those simple rules. That is where the problems come from.

  • ianao
    ianao

    Oh brother.

    At least RWC was honest:

    First, Pom's view of sin is basically correct by my beliefs.
    ----
    Ouch! Mein Esel!!
  • rem
    rem

    RWC,

    By the way, why is it that you think we die in the first place? Is death simply a result of evolution not getting it right up to now and if we wait long enough we will evolve to the point that we don't die? That simply doesn't make any sense.
    Huh? Of course it doesn't make any sense because you have major misconceptions about Evolution. There is no goal of everlasting life in Evolution. Reproduction is the goal. An organism only has to live long enough to reproduce and make sure it's progeny survive. This fits perfectly with what we see happens in the world.

    Second, evolution is not the answer to the creation of the earth. In fact, most scientist who have studied the origions of life have reached the conclusion that there must be a creator.
    That's an interesting statement. Would you like to back it up with evidence? Even if it were true (which it is not) that "most scientist who have studied the origins of life have reached the conclusion that there must be a creator", that is not evidence against Evolution, Abiogenesis, or the Big Bang. It's also not evidence for god. It would merely be the belief of certain scientists. Some scientists believe in UFO's and ESP. Their beliefs are not evidence - that would be an argument from authority. Facts are evidence. There is much evidence that supports the Theory of Evolution. So far there is no evidence for any Theory of Creation. In fact, there still is no falsifiable Theory of Creation.

    The odds against a sea of chemicals swirling around in such a manner to form amino acids and than proteins and than single cell organisms and than ultimantly all of the different types of animals and plants we have on earth today are astronomical. In fact, no scientist has been able to answer how it would happen, much less how DNA would be created. Evolution as the origions of life has been completely defeated.
    More misconceptions. Evolution has more to do with Natural Selection than random chance. Read a book on how Natural Selection works. Natural selection thrives even with random mutation. The process of innumerable events weeding out the unfit features and keeping the fit by Natural Selection come up to an end result that would be extremely improbable in a single iteration. It has been explained quite easily if you take the effort to read about it.

    Also, Evolution does not try to explain the beginning of life - that is Abiogenesis. Evolution has nothing to do with that. Evolution explains how all life is related and how life changes through certain principles.

    There has never been an archeloigial find that has contradicted the Bible. On the contray finds prove it to be accurate.
    Are you a betting man? :) I suppose you haven't been keeping up with modern scholarship and the latest archeological findings.

    The main theme of the Bible is Love. Love of God for mankind. Instructions for us to Love God. Instructions for us to Love one another. We just don't always follow those simple rules. That is where the problems come from.
    Perhaps you are right, but many would not agree with you. There are several other "main themes" of the bible that can be argued, such as God's Sovereignty and such. I personally find it difficult to harmonize the theme of god's love with many of his, shall we say, less than merciful moments in the bible.

    When someone posts so many misconceptions and errors with such authority, it is difficult to take him seriously.

    rem

    "We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain
  • RWC
    RWC

    Rem,

    Thank you for your reply. But I think you misunderstood some of what I said. The end point to any scientific argument regarding evolution or any other name you give it is the origion of life. Where did it start. Natural selection is fine for micro-evolution but it doesn't explain how it all began. Ultimately, even scientists must reach the point that something arrived out of nothing to begen the whole process. Even if you accept the Big Bang theory you must go back far enough in time for the beginning of the explosion and then decide how the materials got there to explode in the first place.

    Science has never been able to create something from nothing. Even single cell organisms are so complex that if you are to be intellectually honest you could not say that they were formed by random chance.

    Your discussion of Natural selection does not solve the problem. Unless you say that life in all its various forms began to emerge at once than the first cell had to form at some time. Did all life come from that first cell and than ultimately evolve or did multiple different types of cells form over time and create all of the different life forms we have today? Either way, the first cell of any type of life form had to exist. The question becomes how did it get there and what caused it to have DNA that was necessary for life?

    As for fossil evidence, you are mistaken when you say that fossils prove the validity of evolution. Even Darwin recognized the lack of fossil evidence for his theory and speculated that it would come over time. The truth is it hasn't. Do we have fossils of giraffes with short necks slowly getting longer, no. Do we have hippos suddenly turning into whales? no. There is a sparcity of transitional fossils which are needed to prove evolution. The truth is that giant leaps in faith are made to support the theory of evolution.

    As for the idea that the Bible is full of "God's less than merciful moments" I would simply ssay that is a misreading of the Bible. For every incident where you can point to the judgment of God coming into play, you will find messengers being sent telling the people to repent and change their ways. You will also find that when people did repent God's wrath was turned away (Nineveh for example)But you fail to answer the most obvious example of God's mercy and that is in the form of Jesus. If you are going to judge God from the Bible at least use the whole book. How more merciful can you be than to send yourself deon to accept the punishment and provide the way for enternal life? All you have to do is believe.

    As for archeological finds, I do stand confident. The more time that passes and the more finds that are made the more the Bible is proven correct. Cities are where the Bible says they are, temple exist where people once believed they couldn't. Name for me one find that contradicts the Bible. I would like to hear about it. What I am referring to is a find that puts a city in a totally different place than the Bible says it would be, not just that somethings haven't been found yet.

    I also stand by my thought on the major theme of the Bible. All debating aside and all differences of opinion cannot change the fact thqt Jesus said the greatest commandment of all is to love each other as we love ourselves Matt.19:19

    Finally, I would rather put my faith and trust in the bible than in science any day. Don't forget that it was science that once told us that the world was flat and hundereds of other scientific facts that since been disproven.

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