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My opinion is no, you don't have to be a trinitarian to become born again. I didn't believe in the trinity at the time I had my spiritual rebirth, in fact, it took me about 3 years before I actually believed the trinity doctrine.
Cynthia
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I agree, same here. The Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. Does anyone really know IT ALL the moment they are saved? I surely don't think so.
I fretted about the Trinity for a few years, due to prior erroneous WT teaching, but as soon as I ASKED the Lord to show me, within short measure an explanation was provided that made perfect sense "just for me." Shows the Lord will work with each person **individually.**
Ditto for understanding that Jesus is really YHWH of the OT, and I mean literally.* That revelation came about a year after the Trinity revelation, and in a very personally-constructed way, just for me, just the right time.
*(What I mean by that: Jesus is THE WORD...from the beginning... has always been the one who stepped out of the invisible Godhead to be the Communicator w/Mankind... He's the only One who "became visible" and was/is Named out of the Trinity Godhead... God the Father remains invisible and unnamed in Scripture, as does the Holy Spirit, but The Word, the Spokesman and Communicator is one and the same in the OT and NT, ie, YHWH/Jesus= Same Person.)
Any "Born Again" Christians here?
by sacolton 108 Replies latest jw friends
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abbagail
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abbagail
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Does becoming a born again christian automatically mean a person now believes the gift of tongues given at Pentecost are just the languages of angels and not the local jews speaking in different earthly languages?(Acts ch2)
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I point out my post is not being cynical ,I just would like to know as while I was a JW the Born agains I met at the homes all seemed to believe in tongues just being a gift in angelic language. Has this changed?
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To your first question, no, being saved does not mean you have to automatically believe in tongues (though many might want you to believe it does).
As for your second question, it is mostly the Pentecostals and Charismatics in other denominations who believe in tongues, and that hasn't changed. But not all Christians understand the scriptures that way, ie, they actually believe similar as JWs in that the "supernatural gifts" ended during the "transition period" from the OT Law/Kingdom economy to the Gentile church age/Grace economy.
HTH!
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Not in my humble opinion!! I have heard it said that those who have spoken in tongues and those who knew that language reported that they were in fact using profanity. Has anyone else ever heard this? Orangefatcat
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I think I've heard that before... but since we don't know WHAT they are saying, how can we tell? ;-) -
wozadummy
Thank you Abbagail for that info ,I don't get to talk many religious people these days and I'd wondered this for a while now, if I were go to church again I would like to see some consistency of teaching.
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Melody Blankenship
Blood-bought, born-again, but still have to raise a little cane every now and then, but that's just because my JW dad (who has Alzheimer's) married into the cult after my mom passed and those greedy SOB's have been helping themselves to our family trusts. GREEDY and IGNORANT JW'S.......They are so "mislead." That's one of my dad's wife's favorite sayings.......oh, if she only knew that there is life without the WTBTS telling you every freakin' move to make! May God bless them and open their scale-covered eyes!
Melody Blankenship
Elk City, OK
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abbagail
Woza, you're very welcome and I know what you mean. Some churches actually REQUIRE that you be able to SPEAK in tongues before you can become a "member" ! And I just KNOW that cannot be correct (Biblically). I mean, it's like saying you have to jump through hoops BEFORE you can become an "official member" of a group of believers? Hmmm, where have we seen that before... ;-/
As for consistency of teaching, most all churches (and their websites) have Doctrinal Statements (or "Statements of Faith") where they outline what they believe. You can learn a lot just by reading those. I bet I've read and copied/saved 50 of them over time. Some are very detailed with lots of scriptures; others are very simple one-liners w/o scripture backup (which I always thought was strange, but they mostly are the same doctrines as the others, it's just that somebody didn't bother to put all the scriptures in).
Most all Christian churches agree it is necessary to believe in the fundamentals such as:
--The Bible in its original manuscripts is the inerrant word of God. (except the "KJV-Only" people, they say the 1611 KJV is the ONLY inerrant Bible out there, which I don't agree with. The ORIGINAL manuscripts were inspired and inerrant, but any translation since then likely has some errors).
--The Trinity, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
--Jesus was born of a virgin, was fully God and Man, was crucified, buried, and rose again.
--That mankind is in sin and cannot save himself, so is in need of salvation; Salvation requires belief in Jesus as Lord and Savior, and in his death/burial/resurrection.
etc. etc.
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Back to your tonques question, this from the "Statement of Faith/What We Believe" at this "Victory In Grace" church (I see the preacher on TV):
http://www.victoryingrace.org/about/what-we-believe
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The gift of tongues (languages) was a manifestation of the Spirit’s power solely for the demonstration of God’s wisdom, purpose and power in the establishment of the early church and always was in a language that was in use. We believe that tongues fulfilled its purpose in the first century and ceased to be used before the completion of the New Testament. We further believe that the modern tongues movement is not of God. Acts 2:16- 18, I Corinthians 14:22.
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Compare that to this Free Chapel's (Church of God/Pentecostal) "What We Believe" statement (I also see this preacher on TV)
http://www.freechapel.org/about/beliefs.aspx
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We believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with speaking in other tongues, as the Spirit gives the utterance, to be the initial evidence of this experience. We believe in the operation of the nine Gifts of the Spirit and encourage our people to live so that these gifts may be manifest in their lives. (Acts 2:4; Acts 10:44-46; Acts 19:6; I Corinthians 12:4-11)
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Actually I like ALL of these guys. ;-) I just may not agree with them all on everything, but that's OK...
One thing that is totally different than JW-Land is that out here in so-called "Christendom," it is OK to "agree to disagree" on other aspects which are not of the Fundamental doctrines of Christianity (as an exmple, WHEN will the church age believers be "caught away" to "meet the Lord in the air." Some say pre-trib, some say mid-trib, some say post-trib, etc. I'm with the pre-trib group ;-) The "agree to disagree" won't "freak you out" too much if you remember that we have Freedom in Christ now under Grace so the Lord is not going to bop us on the head if we are not sure about this or that right yet. It is a different "feel" than JW-Land -- to have this Freedom -- but once you get cozy in it, you'll like it, because you can grow in understanding at your own pace as the Lord leads you. In JW-Land it was like we had to have an "answer for everything," which might make one "panic" out here in Freedom Land where it's OK to NOT have an answer for everything, as we are all learning at our pace and not everybody is at the "same place" in their growth/understanding as another. Hope that makes sense.
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Check out this site... it is not a church per se, but I think you would like it:
WITH CHRIST.org: http://withchrist.org/center.htm
Their Doctrinal Statement: http://withchrist.org/pauldisp.htm
Article at their site: "THE LINE DRAWN: A Booklet on the Charismatic/Pentecostal Baptism, Tongues, Healing, and Demonism, so-called": http://withchrist.org/MJS/line.htm
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Better stop before I make this too long... have a bad habit of doing that. ;-) -
Brymichmom
wozadummy said: Does becoming a born again christian automatically mean a person now believes the gift of tongues given at Pentecost are just the languages of angels and not the local jews speaking in different earthly languages?(Acts ch2)
No. I believe that in Acts 2, that the tongues were real languages. Many people today claim that they speak in tongues and it is a "spiritual" language. I'm not sure about that, and I have never seen an instance of "tongues" that appeared to be genuine. But that's just me. I'm not Pentacostal, or charismatic, so I'm not into any of that stuff.
Cynthia
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XJW4EVR
Does becoming a born again christian automatically mean a person now believes the gift of tongues given at Pentecost are just the languages of angels and not the local jews speaking in different earthly languages?(Acts ch2)
Pentecostal poppycock! There are many Christians that either do not believe that speaking in tongues is for today, or that believe that the baptism with the Holy Spirit (as opposed to the baptism by the Holy Spirit) is not evidenced by speaking in tongues.
I point out my post is not being cynical ,I just would like to know as while I was a JW the Born agains I met at the homes all seemed to believe in tongues just being a gift in angelic language. Has this changed?
This is more Pentecostalism. The languages spoken in Acts 2 were actual languages as noted by the hearers response. The "angelic language" of the modern-day Pantecostal is nothing more than the repetition of gibberish. I am a former Pentecostal, fwiw.
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White Dove
I found my true calling in paganism, namely Wicca.
That being the case, I have a wonderful hope and a wonderful life now.
I totally respect everyone's right to pursue that which makes them spiritually satisfied.
God(dess) knows that none of us got spiritually satisfied reading the WT mags and going to meetings every other day of the week and knocking on doors.
I applaud everyone who has a faith they can believe in and can happily and proudly proclaim it.
I feel the same way!
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wozadummy
XJW4 - very astute of you ,it seemed that all the ones I met who confessed to being born again were in fact from Pentecostal churches ,there seemed to be a prolific amount of them around here and I guess we tarred all born agains with the same brush because of this ,the almost aggressive way they would point out that they were born again as if they were superior. But I guess all those of the churches really claimed to be born again because of their heavenly hope ,though they did'nt make a big song and dance about it like the Pentecostals used to.
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hmike
I've read the bible cover to cover 5 times and not the new world translation.
I took notes and compared them. I went back and reflected on them.
The bible is not what you think it is. It is full of errors and contradictions.
I have been saved 100 times and it doesnt take.
Because there is nothing to be saved from.
I never did anyting wrong.
I am good and I am telling you you can be good.
But the first step you need to take is quit being stupid.
Stupid is not good.
You dont need a savior.
You just need to start thinking.
It probably will hurt at first.
And if you hear a big bang.
Dont be alarmed, its only your head coming out of your axx.
And if you need a savior why not one of the previous messiahs born to virgins.
How about Krishna or Herclues.
Why go with Johny come lately.
And if Jesus was born to a virgin, maybe Mary was artifically inseminated by aliens/ Gods.
The main thing is read your bible and think about what you read and you will be on your way.
Just start thinking.
The first step could be quit the republican party.
I know its only a baby step.
But what about Bob.
I got in this one because of our friend jaguarbass.
Born-again Christian, registered Democrat for entire adult life (Christian for longer than being a Democrat), not afraid to examine, question, think, challenge...believe it or not, those can go together.
Mike