Defence of watchtower society Links

by reniaa 343 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  mrsjones5

  This has been posted before:

  Why were Jehovah's Witnesses looking forward to 1975? Let THE WATCHTOWER answer:
  First, the August 15, 1968 WATCHTOWER page 494 bottom half, where the article begins titled "Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?"

  

  The answer is found on page 499 in the same article of this August 15, 1968 WATCHTOWER:
  The question asked in the bottom left part of the page is answered on the upper right column (August 15, 1968 WATCHTOWER, page 499):

  

  http://www.cftf.com/comments/1975.html

  So yeah the watchtower did promote the year 1975. This is all verifible if you have access to old publications from the late 60's to the early 70's (my parents still have their old watchtower and awake bound volumes ).
• 

  Mary

  reniaa said: but then if we condemn all faiths for anticipating dates then we wouldn't even follow the bible because even in thessalonians they anticipated jesus.

  Reniaa, you---like the Watchtower----are promoting a Double Standard. There is nothing in the bible that condemns "anticipating" something and yes you are correct when you say that the early Christians were 'anticipating' Jesus' Return in their lifetime. However, there's a HUGE difference between what the early Christians 'anticipated', and how the WTS has 'anticipated' Christ's Return. There is absolutely nothing in the scriptures that even hints that the early Christian congregation set any date and enforced it on all believers. Nor is there any hint that those who refused to believe in this 'date', were disfellowshipped for 'apostasy', even when the said date passed without incident. So for you to try and compare what Jesus' early followers practiced, with what the WTS practices, is without any foundation whatsoever.

  As for your assertion that if we 'condemn all faiths for anticipating dates then we wouldn't even follow the bible', is just absurd. The WTS does condemn ALL other faiths for no other reason than they don't believe in the WTS's false date setting or other crazy doctrines. Where do you come up with the idea that not following a 'date' is rejecting the bible itself?

  Like I've said in the past I'll forgive a religion for making obviously human mistakes but there is a point of no return

  Really? Then why doesn't the WTS 'forgive a religion for making obviously human mistakes'?? They have absolutely no respect for any other religion on the face of the earth and lump all of them in with "Babylon the Great." They never pass up an opportunity to gleefully bash the faults of other religions for their mistakes, yet when the Society's own mistakes are pointed out, they, like you, attempt to trivialize them as being of little importance.

  idolatry, false worship to a God that is not JHWH, supporting fornication/adolatry in their congregation, encouraging members to kill each other in conflict so murder etc you know the bigger issues!

  Oh please. In many of the WT study articles over the past 2 or 3 years, the Governing Body members have basically put themselves 'on God's throne, showing themselves to be God'. They claim that to go against them is the same as going against Jehovah or Jesus. If that's not 'idol worship' I don't know what is. You don't have to be kneeling in front of someone in order for it to be classified as "worship". As for 'supporting fornication/adultery" in the congregation, don't make me laugh. One of the elders in my old Hall had an affair with his best friends' wife for a couple of years. Even though alot of people knew about it, the entire thing was swept under the carpet and he's still an elder. I'm sure there's numerous other situations that are no different. As for "encouraging members to kill each other in conflict", you must be kidding. How man Jehovah's Witnesses are effectively murdered by the Governing Body's insane ruling on 'no blood transfusions'? You obviously read my project so you are fully aware that there is no scriptural support for their ban on transfusions. You don't have to have a gun in your hand in order to murder someone.

  Plus, I find it irritating and hypocritical that Witnesses like you are always ready to bash those who have fought and died in wars. While some wars---like the one in Iraq---are nothing but money making schemes, there are times when war is necessary. Where would YOU be Reniaa, if men had not been willing to go to war against Hitler? Instead of blindly condemning these men for 'killing their brothers', perhaps you should be grateful that a stranger who you roundly condemn, was willing to die for YOU and I and so that we would not have to live under a dictator like Hitler The WTS never fails to bash the very people that died for the religious freedoms that they enjoy to this day and it is truly nauseating to see them whine and cry about their "religious Rights" while at the same time, verbally condemning those who made this freedom possible. People like you Reniaa, make me sick.

  Now if someone tells me that they left JW's because of one of these nitpicky issues more to do with human error which itself is recorded in the bible and then they go on to join a faith/religion or lack of faith(Atheism, agnostism etc) that advocates the above major wrongdoings how can I respect them?

  What are these 'nitpicky issues'? False date setting maybe? It's funny how these "nitpicky issues" become major issues and disfellowshipping offenses when someone dares to question them. And believe me----I don't think anyone's too worried about whether or not they have your respect.
• 

  isaacaustin

  I was trying to reply to Reniaa and got an error message. Then I got back to the thread and Mary replied to Reniaa (without any conferring with me) almost word for word what I was trying to post. LOL Great minds think alike.

  One point to add regarding war Reniaa. WHile I personally do not like war a Christians involvement or lack thereof is for that person to weigh carefully and prayerfully. Notice what John the Baptist said to some soldiers hwo wanted to be right with God:

  Luuke 2

  1 4 Some soldiers were questioning him, saying, "And what about us, what shall we do?" And he said to them, "Do not take money from anyone by force, or (R) accuse anyone falsely, and (S) be content with your wages."

  Hmm, nothing of changing their profess.

  I also have to ask you the scriptural basis for your check points on determing the WT as the true religion.
• 

  AuldSoul

  reniaa: but then if we condemn all faiths for anticipating dates then we wouldn't even follow the bible because even in thessalonians they anticipated jesus.

  reniaa,

  This is not reasonable, in my opinion. Nothing in Thessalonians says a date by which Armageddon will have occurred. Since there was no date setting in Thessalonians, the comparison is false.

  reniaa: Now if someone tells me that they left JW's because of one of these nitpicky issues more to do with human error which itself is recorded in the bible

  Which is also not true. Not one Christian in the Bible is recorded as setting a date by which Armageddon would have come.

  Jesus' disciples being confused and asking Jesus questions is not the same as a religious group being ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN of what was going to happen according to the Divine Plan of the Ages, to the point that they boldly preached their false predictions and publicized their false hopes throughout the world as God's truth.

  Please read Ezekiel 13:1-23, which is one of the Scriptures used by the the article I posted for you as proof that every consecrated person should be speaking as an oracle of God. The FACT, indisputable fact, reniaa, is that God did not give Russell the message he and his followers were preaching to the world.

  Consider this, Millennial Dawn Volume II: The Time Is at Hand, by C. T. Russell, was cited as the basis for the prediction that Armageddon would have been completed by 1915 in the January 15, 1892 Watchtower.

  

  The title of Millennial Dawn Volume II was "The Time Is at Hand!" This volume continued as a part of the primary Studies in the Scripture series until after 1927.

  Luke 21:8 — And he said, Take heed that ye be not led astray: for many shall come in my name, saying . . . The time is at hand: go ye not after them.

  Why would Jesus ever choose, as his only messengers, a religious group that was busy spreading a message that he directly told his disciples to ignore?

  The conclusion I was forced by the facts to reach, reniaa, is that any religion that did not START OUT teaching the truth will not be fixed by God. God CORRECTED the nation of Israel because they started out RIGHT, not because they started out wrong and stayed wrong. He gave them the truth FIRST, then held them accountable to that and kept on bringing them back to it.

  This religion started out wrong. They started out by preaching false doctrine and spreading false hopes and making false predictions. Since they never have been right, why would God fix their religion? He never has had anything to do with them from the beginning. They started out teaching what God opposes and they STILL teach in opposition to God's word, down to this very day.

  For instance:

  The words 'paradise' and 'earth' never appear in the same paragraph anywhere in the Bible, much less the same sentence. JWs teach that 'paradise' at Revelation 2:7 refers to heaven, specifically to the garden of God in heaven where conquering anointed ones will receive their reward. 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 clearly corresponds 'third heaven' (or 'highest heaven' according to the Jews) with 'paradise.' The evildoer asked Jesus to remember him when Jesus got into his kingdom, and Jesus assured the man that he would be with Jesus in paradise. Where would Jesus be when he got into his kingdom, if not in heaven?

  There is no Scripture in the entire Bible that teaches that the whole earth has ever been a paradise at any point in the past, yet Jehovah's Witnesses claim God is going to restore the whole earth to a paradise. If I have a house that was built using shoddy materials, was not built to square, had a crumbling foundation when it was first poured, can I really say I have RESTORED the house if I bring it into a better condition than it had ever had? Of course not.

  There is not one Scripture in the whole Bible that teaches about a paradise earth, yet JWs insist that this teaching is Scriptural because they assert as fact that the "new earth" equals "paradise earth." "New earth" appears in the Bible, however, and is a Scriptural idea; while "paradise earth" never appears in the Bible and is an unscriptural idea.

  False hope. Still. Same religion, same method of winning converts, still teaching false hopes, still making false predictions.

  Consider Ezekiel 13:1-23 carefully, reniaa. It currently describes and always has described your religion's leadership.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
• 

  passwordprotected

  ...new conversation...
  
  Reasoning Book pg312
  
  Rapture Definition: The belief that faithful Christians will be bodily caught up from the earth, suddenly taken out of the world, to be united with the Lord "in the air." The word "rapture" is understood by some persons, but not by all, to be the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 4:17. The word "rapture" does not occur in the inspired Scriptures.
  1 Thess 4:15 For this is what we tell YOU by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep [in death]; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord. 18 Consequently keep comforting one another with these words.
  
  Note verse 17 - "afterward we the living who are surviving.."
  
  How does the BIBLE contradict this 'false teaching' of rapture according to the Reasoning Book's definition. I'm confused.
• 

  isaacaustin

  p
• 

  isaacaustin

  passwordprotected

  I read that years ago and did not understand the contradiction either. I didn't see it so i filed it toward the back of my mind.
• 

  passwordprotected

  @isaacausting - in that file called 'doubts'? When did the file get so full and heavy that it broke the shelf? ;-)
• 

  isaacaustin

  yes, the one called doubts.. the cabinet broke in 95 when I had in the back of my mind thought that perhaps the WT was right. I worried about the aging 1914 generation. However in reading that 1995 Wt and seeing it redefined it showed me the WT was nothing special. It took years later though to see that this was actually one of many in a string of false prophecies. Then I was able later on down the road to unravel doctrine.
• 

  isaacaustin

  Reniaa

  As per the WT, the mention of paradise in Rev 2:7 is heavenly:

  13

  Finally, as he does also in his other messages, Jesus calls attention to God’s spirit as making known through Jesus the rewards for faithfulness. To the Ephesians he says: "Lettheonewhohasanearhearwhatthespiritsaystothecongregations:TohimthatconquersIwillgranttoeatofthetreeoflife,whichisintheparadiseofGod."(Revelation2:7) Those with hearing ears would be eager to heed that vital message, knowing that it did not come on Jesus’ initiative but that it flowed from the Sovereign Lord Jehovah himself through His holy spirit, or active force. How would they ‘conquer’? By following closely in the steps of Jesus, who kept integrity to the death and so could say: "Take courage! I have conquered the world."—John 8:28; 16:33; see also 1 John 5:4.

  14

  Since they have no prospect of living in an earthly paradise, how is it that anointed Christians, such as those Ephesians, are rewarded with eating "of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God"? This could not be the restored Paradise on earth, since the 144,000 anointed Christians, including those of the congregation at Ephesus, are bought from among mankind to rule with the Lamb, Christ Jesus, on the heavenly Mount Zion as spirit sons. (Ephesians 1:5-12; Revelation 14:1, 4) Hence, the reference here must be to the heavenly gardenlike realm inherited by these conquerors. There, "in the paradise of God," yes, in the very presence of Jehovah himself, these overcomers who have been granted immortality will continue to live eternally, as symbolized here by their eating of the tree of life.

  Show a verse that the paradise is earthly.