Deceptive or just wrong?

by johnnyc 193 Replies latest jw experiences

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  isaacaustin

  agreed DeputyDog

  Let me lay this out simply for Johnnyc

  4/1/83 WT Question from Readers, page 31:

  Watchtower

  notmadeuseofthetranslationbytheformerCatholicpriest,JohannesGreber?

  This translation was used occasionally in support of renderings of Matthew 27:52, 53 and John 1:1, as given in the NewWorldTranslation and other authoritative Bible versions. (((But as indicated in a foreword to the 1980 edition of TheNewTestament by Johannes Greber, this translator relied on "God’s Spirit World" to clarify for him how he should translate difficult passages.))) ok so they are insinuating they have learned this in 1980

  It is stated: "His wife, a medium of God’s Spiritworld was often instrumental in conveying the correct answers from God’s Messengers to Pastor Greber." TheWatchtower has deemed it improper to make use of a translation that has such a close rapport with spiritism. (Deuteronomy 18:10-12) The scholarship that forms the basis for the rendering of the above-cited texts in the NewWorldTranslation is sound and for this reason does not depend at all on Greber’s translation for authority. Nothing is lost, therefore, by ceasing to use his NewTestament.

  Is this true? The WT talks of Greber in the 2/15/56 WT on pages 108 thru 121....here is some of what they say..

  10

  Says Johannes Greber in the introduction of his translation of The New Testament, copyrighted in 1937: "I myself was a Catholic priest, and until I was forty-eight years old had never as much as believed in the possibility of communicating with the world of God’s spirits. The day came, however, when I involuntarily took my first step toward such communication, and experienced things that shook me to the depths of my soul. . . . My experiences are related in a book that has appeared in both German and English and bears the title, Communication with the Spirit-World: Its Laws and Its Purpose." (Page 15, ¶ 2, 3)

  Oh wow! Here they are quoting Greber's own admission in their lit that he was a spirit medium.

  In keeping with his Roman Catholic extraction Greber’s translation is bound with a gold-leaf cross on its stiff front cover. In the Foreword of his aforementioned book ex-priest Greber says: "The most significant spiritualistic book is the Bible." Under this impression Greber endeavors to make his New Testament translation read very spiritualistic.

  11

  Spiritualism claims that there are good spirits and bad spirits and that it does not want to have anything to do with the bad spirits but tries to communicate only with the good spirits. At 1 John 4:1-3 the Bible says:

  Case closed

  They continued to use Greber in their pubs after this 1956 date...until called on it.
• 

  Deputy Dog

  isaac

  Can you imagine letting someone this inept run your spiritual life

  johnnyc said:

  Why can't it be as simple as some at the WTBTS knew, and others did not.

  It might slip by once or maybe twice. But look, seven times? · Aid To Bible Understanding Page 1134
  · Aid To Bible Understanding Page 1669
  · Make Sure Of All Things Page 489
  · The Watchtower 9-15-62 Page 554
  · The Watchtower 10-15-75 Page 640
  · The Watchtower 4-15-76 Page 231
  · The Word Page 5 Are they that dumb at bethel? Face it johnnyc, they lied !
• 

  Farkel

  : More importantly, to prove fraud, you would have to present evidence that the GB thought they were not correct about a date DURING the time they were promoting it - and chose to do so anyway. That is the true definition of fraud and deceit. Not what you here would like to claim it to be.
  
  Fred Franz candidly admitted that he concocted Armageddon happening and the ancient prophets returning to earth at Beth Sarim by 1925 solely to get the drunken and declining J. Franklinstein Rutherford away from Brooklyn Headquarters where he couldn't cause the rest of the Society any more trouble.
  
  What was that you asked about the true definitions of "fraud" and "deceit" again?
  
  Farkel
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  johnnyc

  This is so very interesting, all your comments. I am not sitting here stating that the GB or WTBTS is perfect - far from. They are probably the largest publisher of bible literature on the planet - and have been for the last (nearly) 100 years. Of course there is going to be errors on the part of every section there. It is actually amazing there are so few errors to actually point out in relation to the quality of publishing they do. I find it interesting to note that many of you think the GB is sitting there thinking of ways to deceive JW's and ruin their lives, and you imagine that meetings take place which purposefully maneuver truths to place known falsehoods down in print. You ask for perfection from very imperfect men. If a GB member was caught committing incest with his family, you would plaster it all over the internet with - "see, they are very bad men". Lot, Abraham's brother, was a righteous man who did exactly that. Moses, Samson, David, Saul, Peter, Paul, etc etc ALL had major shortcomings and sinned all the time. When Jesus arrived on earth, the temple and its priestly leadership was all but apostate - yet Jesus came to admonish them to turn around - giving them proper authority until God made his move against them. The bible states that "judgment shall first occur in the house of God" - why would there need to be such judgment if everyone is so perfect? More importantly, there are many examples by which imperfection of God's channel still required obedience thereof - it does not let us off the hook for going our own way...
• 

  stillajwexelder

  relation to the quality of publishing they do.

  Define Quality please
• 

  leavingwt

  JohnnyC:

  You just don't get it.

  Your mind is still being controlled.

  Wake up and smell the cult.

  -LWT
• 

  bennyk

  johnnyc writes:

  there are many examples by which imperfection of God's channel still required obedience thereof - it does not let us off the hook for going our own way...

  Fine and dandy, old bean. But the Society is in no way, shape, or form "God's channel"...
• 

  johnnyc

  oops - i meant quantity.
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  johnnyc

  bennyk: I was simply making the point that there are examples in the bible of God's channel not always acting correctly or doing the right thing - but in each example God still requires others to keep in line with their authority. In those cases however, it usually means a very bad punishment for the party in authority who makes that error.
• 

  IHaveADream

  Dear JohnnyC,
  
  May I remind you of Matthew 24:36 Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens or the Son, only the Father.
  
  I would think that says it all. The WTBTS go directly against that scripture and have done so from the very inception of their organization. I say SHAME on them for doing this to their congregants and SHAME on us for being so stupid as to believe in their hogwash!!!! They arrogantly think they can predict the Time of the End when it clearly states in the scriptures that the Son of God does not even know it.
  
  You my poor human are still enmeshed in their web of lies. I pray that you continue your research and set yourself free from this so-called Truth that is not truth at all.