show mw a verse where the apostles preached a date for the end to come or even a short span? A question was asked in Acts 1...and it was beleived to be near BUT the WT has done much more. What would have happened in 1992, for instance, if a JW declared he did not beleive that the end would ocme beore the physical generation that saw the events of 1914 passed away? 1 guess.
Deceptive or just wrong?
by johnnyc 193 Replies latest jw experiences
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isaacaustin
You know, it is tough to discuss something when I have to prove this simplest thing. isaacaustin: For you, check out Jonah 3:4 (Jo´nah started to enter into the city the walking distance of one day, and he kept proclaiming and saying: “Only forty days more, and Nin´e·veh will be overthrown.") From that exact moment Jonah proclaimed something that did not occur. Because of that, Jonah was "hot with anger" over the fact he pronounced something that did not occur.
Wrong Johnnyc:
Jonah 4:2:
1 But Jonah was greatly displeased and became angry. 2 He prayed to the LORD, "O LORD, is this not what I said when I was still at home? That is why I was so quick to flee to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity. 3 Now, O LORD, take away my life, for it is better for me to die than to live."
Jonah clearly says that he initially fled BECAU he knew God relents from sending calamity. You need to read the tire story.
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LovesDubs
If a person says they are Gods Mouthpiece...are they anything BUT prophets or is what God says subject to the interpretation of the hearer of God? And how exactly is God dictating to his "Mouthpiece"? And so then if the mouthpiece gets it WRONG all they have to do is say hey....its New Light or New Understanding and anything they say, anything AT ALL can then be excused as not having enough light on it the first time God Said It to His Mouthpiece. They have also claimed that God himself is the editor in chief of the Watchtower so if He allows ERRORS to go unchecked and uncorrected...does that say that God is an idiot or that the people claiming God WROTE those lies...are self righteous pompous ass frauds?
Its the same reasoning they have with "keeping the congregation clean"...if a JW is caught and convicted of pedophilia, they immediately say that he "was never a JW because JWs dont do those things" WHAT???
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Leolaia
If you use Jonah as an example, don't forget that it was Yahweh's purpose at the time he sent Jonah on his mission to do what Jonah prophesied. The story is clear that Yahweh relented from his planned destruction of Ninevah because the populace acted on account of Jonah's warning and they repented from their behavior and turned away from their gods and worshipped Yahweh. Is that what is being analogized to what happened in 1975? So are we to believe that Jehovah really did plan to unleash Armageddon in 1975, but that on account of the Watchtower's warning, the whole world turned away from "false religion" and became "witnesses of Jehovah" and therefore the world was spared? Repentance is essential to the story of Jonah -- just as it was for Jeremiah, who told the people of Jerusalem that Yahweh would relent from letting the Babylonians destroy the city if they turned from the wicked ways.
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bennyk
The Society does claim to be a prophet. Publications of the Watch Tower Society establish the view that they claim to speak for God. Rutherford stated:
“These are the anointed class on earth, and these are they who are watchmen and who joyfully do the will of the Lord on earth. Since he commands what shall be done on earth we should have no difficulty in finding that he is directing his work. The Watch Tower is the medium of communication with the various ones who are watchmen and who love the Lord. The Lord has long used it for that purpose. During the year just past THE WATCH TOWER, we believe, has set forth some meat in due season sent from the Lord. (WT 01. Dec. 1925, p.355)
“Without a doubt the Lord uses his angels to cause the truth to be published in The Watchtower, and the faithful followers of Christ Jesus who hear and give heed to the message of truth from the Lord and render obedience thereto are thus a spectacle or theater to others, both men and angels...” (WT 01. Feb. 1935, p.41)
“In 1927 God began to reveal to his people the meaning of the dream had by Nebuchadnezzar. Thereafter, in August 1930, by and through the columns of The Watchtower God caused to be published the proper understanding of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar. As stepping stones gradually leading up to the understanding of the great image was the publication of the articles in The Watchtower, to wit, “The Winepress,” September 1, 1926 ; “The Stone in Zion,” October 15, 1926. No man can properly interpret prophecy, and the Lord sends his angels to transmit correct information to his people, and when these truths come to his people and the facts fit the prophecy, then they should take it as from the Lord and receive it with rejoicing.” (WT 15. Feb. 1935, p.52) .
(The Society’s new understanding of Nebuchadnezzar‘s dream, although declared to be “proper”, “correct”, and “from the Lord”, has since been abandoned as false.) Thus the Lord gets the blame for Rutherford’s erroneous teachings and false prophecies.
Rutherford even went so far as to equate his false prophecy regarding 1925 with the Gospel:
“Therefore it seems that now is the time for the church to proclaim far and wide in Christendom this good news. Hence it is the purpose of the Society to ask every public speaker, all the Pilgrim brethren, all the elders of classes, all who can give a public discourse in every part of Christendom, to prepare a discourse upon the subject: “The World Has Ended~Millions Now Living Will Never Die,” and to herald this message as a witness to Christendom; and it would seem if the church fails to do this, the very stones will cry out.” (WT 01. July 1920, p.200)
“Surely the words of the Master are now in course of fulfillment: "This gospel ["The World Has Ended: Millions Now Living Will Never Die"] shall be preached in all the world for a witness, and then shall the end come". The Master’s inspiring words thrill the heart of the Christian and spur him on with greater zeal to give the witness now. We urge the dear brethren everywhere, everyone who is qualified, according to the Lord’s arrangement, for speaking to the public, to use for all public addresses the subject: "Millions Now Living Will Never Die". It is the message that we want to get to the people. It is the message of the hour. It is the message that must go to all Christendom as a witness before the final end of the present order.” (WT 15. Oct. 1920, p.310 bracketed material in original)
(Recycled old post)
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Warlock
Johnnyc: Crazy by choice or by birth?
Warlock
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Leolaia
"These expressions of God's will by his King and through his established agency constitute his law or rule of action for the 'faithful and wise servant' and for their goodwill companions today who will dwell upon the earth for ever in the New World. The Lord breaks down our organization instructions further and makes them more practicable by futher instructing us through his 'faithful and wise servant'. He says, 'Let us assign the field, the world, to special pioneers, regular pioneers and companies of Jehovah's witnesses in an orderly way, sufficient for everyone to thoroughly witness therein, and let us place upon each one the responsibility for caring for the New World interests in these respective assignments.' He says the requirements for special pioneers shall be 175 hours and 50 back-calls per month, which should develop into a reasonable number of studies; and for regular pioneers 150 hours and as many back-calls and studies as can properly be developed during that time. And for the company publishers he says, 'Let us make a quota of 60 hours and 12 back-calls and at least one study a week for each publisher.' These directions come directly from the Lord through his established agency directing what is required of us; and, for those who really love the Lord and are guided by his counsel, that is a reasonable service requirement. This expression of the Lord's will should be the end of all controversy.....The Lord through his 'faithful and wise servant' now states to us, 'Let us cover our territory four times in six months.' That becomes our organization instructions and has the same binding force on us that his statement to the Logos had when he said, 'Let us make man in our image.' It is our duty to accept this additional instruction and obey it. But someone will say, 'The conditions are different. In the case of the Logos, he could accomplish what Jehovah commanded him to do; but when it comes to covering our territory four times in six months, that is out of all reason. We have never covered it more than once or, at the most, twice in six months. It just can't be done.' We have all heard that argument before. And if it were true it would look bad indeed, and would imply that the Lord was asking us to do something that is impossible for us to accomplish. The children of Israel walked around Jericho seven times the last day" (Watchtower, 1 April 1943, p. 203)
"Jehovah is the source of knowledge. When he speaks, all should listen and learn. And how does he speak? Through his appointed channel of communication -- his collective congregation of anointed ones.... As servants of Jehovah we desire to serve along with this channel of communication and aid in dispensing this information to others. During January we shall do this by extending to all the opportunity to subscribe for the Watchtower magazine, the main instrument used by the congregation to dispense Jehovah's communications" (Informant, January 1956, p. 1)
"The whole body under the direction of the head moves and acts as a beautifully co-ordinated unit, perfectly organized. In the same way Christ, the Head, employs the organization that is his body to carry out his assigned work. His orders reach the whole of the organization on earth through the governing body, and on down through the Branches to the congregations.—1 Cor. 12:12-18; Matt. 24:45-47.
To hold to the headship of Christ, it is therefore necessary to obey the organization that he is personally directing. Doing what the organization says is to do what he says. Resisting the organization is to resist him" (Watchtower, 1 May 1959, p. 269)
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Deputy Dog
johnnyc
Deputy Dog: The link you sent me has a major contradiction. It starts by saying that once the WT found out that Johannes Greber was into spiritualistic practices, they discontinued using his quote - yet then later states that they knew from the start.
Yes it's a "major contradiction" for sure, and it's up to you to figure which is true. Why don't you read the two letters at the bottom of this page: http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/who_is_greber.htm WARNING: The Truth Hurts Or was that why you didn't reply to my last post?
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isaacaustin
Basically they made an comment in a 1950 somethin WT article that stated Greber was a sprit medium. They then used Grebers translation in support of their John 1:1 translation. When they were called on this aorund 1980 they acted as though they were hearing this for the first time and said that after learning this they felt it was not appropriate to quote from him anymore. The only contradiction is on the part of the WT.
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Deputy Dog
isaac
From were I stand this is an admission that they hold to doctrines of demons.