by johnnyc 193 Replies latest jw experiences
JohnnyC:
You don't get it. Because of Mind Control, details of the doctrines do not matter. What they print has nothing to do with reality. It's all a UNIQUE INTERPRETATION of Scripture. Nothing more, nothing less.
The followers can be made to believe anything, as long as their minds are being controlled.
-LWT
See, you know a comment like "Mind Control" is very specific. It means that you all believe the WTBTS has actual meetings and plans surrounding this "Mind Control" effort. If they did, don't you think Raymond Franz would be saying that right now...? Do you know what sort of planning would be required to purposefully place "Mind Controlling" statements into the WT. There are a lot here who were in Bethel and part of the whole operation - Please enlighten us - IS THERE actually "Mind Control" efforts being made in the printed WT???? There may be truth in the middle of all this, but I tell you one thing - you, who believe the private mission statement of the GB is to perpetuate a "Mind Control" agenda upon its readership to "fool" them....are sadly mistaken and so far to the left that you cant see straight.
To the 1st part: The WTBTS has explained their "prophet" position, and why the quotes
ok johny, ill bite show me these quotes mindreader.....and i do actually believe most of the guys are sincere...but they also sincerely flat out lie, so what is their sincere motive for that?...so ya, on some things they are CLEARLY intentionally DECEPTIVE......if you don't believe me look at my OMG WT Lie and Pic of Jesus thread...and they also destroy families, and by letting kids get baptised and encouraging that, it is just not frikkin fair...just one more example of them going beyond what is written as in the bible only adults are baptised....might as well baptise infants since children dont know their own minds yet either.......oompa
johnnyc
See, you know a comment like "Mind Control" is very specific. It means that you all believe the WTBTS has actual meetings and plans surrounding this "Mind Control" effort. If they did, don't you think Raymond Franz would be saying that right now...? Do you know what sort of planning would be required to purposefully place "Mind Controlling" statements into the WT. There are a lot here who were in Bethel and part of the whole operation - Please enlighten us - IS THERE actually "Mind Control" efforts being made in the printed WT???? There may be truth in the middle of all this, but I tell you one thing - you, who believe the private mission statement of the GB is to perpetuate a "Mind Control" agenda upon its readership to "fool" them....are sadly mistaken and so far to the left that you cant see straight.
There you go again. Why can this only be, either, or? Does the WTBTS have to have " actual meetings and plans" in order to actually control someone's mind? Many people are controlling, and don't even realize what they are doing. That doesn't make them any less guilty of abuse. You may not agree with me about their intent. But you have to admit they are guilty. Take a good long look at this article: http://www.macgregorministries.org/jehovahs_witnesses/mindcontrol.html Does the WT have to call a meeting and make plans in order to lie or to spread a lie? Does the WT have to call a meeting and make plans to cause people to think they are speaking for God? You keep making this plea about Raymond Franz. I don't know him personally. But I'm hear to tell you, he has no idea how much harm has been caused, regardless of intent. He has hurt people he isn't even aware of. Does this make the WT any less guilty or responsible? As a group that calls themselves a church or a religion, they are obligated to have meetings to see that these things don't happen. This is called acting responsibly. If a drunk driver kills someone, is he any less guilty of drunk driving because he was so drunk he didn't know what he was doing? Everyone knows if you drive drunk long enough you will kill or injure someone sooner or later. Even if the Watchtower's intent was pure (and most of us have seen enough to know it's not), they see the hurt they cause, the deaths they cause. Are they decieved, decievers or just wrong? The truth is ALL of the above.
johnnyc said: But it was his book that also got me thinking back towards the WT. In his book, he talks about how none of the people (including himself) should have been DF'd or had judicial meetings since evidence was either lacking, or in his words, they were on a fishing expedition for apostates. The problem with all that, is that he clearly states in his book that he, and the other associates of his, had those contrary conversations and thoughts before any of that started. Then, to back everything up, he and the other DF'd members (Dunlap etc) immediately turned and attacked the WTBTS intensely - basically confirming they were who the GB thought they were.
No, they did NOT 'attack' the WTBTS "intensely" and anyone who's actually read Crisis of Conscience would know that. Ray gave his experience both in the time before he went to Bethel, during his time there and afterwards. He in no way ever 'attacked' them---He merely pointed out their hypocritical nature and exposed all their stinking rotten lies. Where exactly are you getting that he "attacked" them?
wobble asked: Is JohnnyC really Reniaa under another name? I have only speed read the first three pages of this thread,but he seems to be of the same ilk if not the same person,an Apologist for the WT,trying to excuse their lies and deception.
Funny, I was wondering the same thing........johnnyc's 'arguments' and avoiding certain questions sounds almost identical to Reniaa......I was going to ask him if they were married.....
johnnyc
Comments about the GB being so controlling in peoples lives, makes me think about a boat full of holes, and them trying to keep it together just a bit longer – all the while people in the water are jumping into the boat making it worse – yet they keep holding that ship together any way they can. Then certain people keep trying to purposefully sink the ship – so they start knocking them off to save the rest. They may inadvertently knock someone off the boat back into the water who didn’t deserve it, but they are there to offer a helping hand back into the boat – as nothing is permanent, and they truly desire everyone to be saved. See it may be God’s boat, but like it or not it comes with holes (caused by Satan, but allowed by God). If you are mad about the holes, it is not the Stewart who is trying (again TRYING) to temporarily plug them that you should be mad at, is it? But then again, cant you be mad at God – he gave you at least a boat. Just because the Stewart does not fix the boat, does not invalidate the fact he is the Stewart. This analogy could go on forever, but I get what all of you are saying in return...
Sorry, but, you're not getting what I'm saying. In your little analogy, you see the boat as the Watchtower. I see the boat as Jesus Christ. He has no holes.
JohnnyC:
Please read Steven Hassan's first book, Combatting Cult Mind Control'. You'll then be an expert at how WT uses mind control. His book never even mentions the Witnesses. He doesn't have to. He describes the methodology, and you'll be able to connect the dots.
Randy Watters has written an entire book on how WT uses Mind Control. Keep reading.
http://www.freeminds.org/psych/lifton2.htm
Another good one, an explanation of WT and B.I.T.E.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/91207/1.ashx
-LWT
Mary: I did not say he (R. Franz) attacked the WTBTS in his book, but don't you know he has had many speaking engagements and other documents where he has...?
Deputy Dog: Nice Ronald Regan quip...but that has been done. Have you ever worked for a big company? You cannot effectively do anything in a publishing house of hundreds of employees (including different departments) without having a serious plan to do such. Whereas I agree that a person can be controlling without purposefully planning such, you can't get that across in an atmosphere like Bethel without large scale planning. So again, if you want the society to be guilty of "Mind Control" efforts, you'd better have more than just an accusation. I do agree they have been severely wrong.....much more wrong than they even admit to....but mind control - nope. Someone from Bethel would have said something by now, and I am sure we would have heard that from Franz. Im just trying to keep a "real" sense about everything. In truth, I think many of you have traveled too far left, and it shows. You should try to remain more balanced, and you will have far greater appeal to people "looking" outside the org. You guys turn many off who might venture out to look at "WT alternatives" based on fanatic reasonings.
