I have to be truthful I didn't read the dialogue between Joe and Chris, but what I would like to say is that how on earth could Satan have any control over the stars in heaven? They are there by God's choosing not Satan's. The astronomers or magi looked for signs in the stars so they would also know of the prophecy of the birth of a child who would be a King of the royal house of David. These prophecies were well known and were spread by the Jews abroad. Even Herod was terrified of the news of a Child being born to become King of the Jews, but to make sure that wouldn't happen all boys 2 and under were murdered. And yes God can use whom ever he want to be an instrument to accomplish his will, and they don't have to be one of his servants he can use any one he wants anytime any where. So it may have been God who used an angel to guide those magi to Christ. orangefatcat
Star of Bethlehem = Satan?
by sacolton 33 Replies latest jw friends
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blondie
Did You Know?
Arthur C. Clarke's "The Star", about explorers investigating a civilization destroyed by a nova that was the Star of Bethlehem, aired on the CBS 1985 "Twilight Zone" TV remake.
Arthur C. Clarke’s short story ‘‘The Star’’ appeared in the science fiction magazine Infinity Science Fiction in 1955. It was reprinted in a collection of Clarke’s short stories called The Other Side of the Sky in 1958. In his introduction to this collection, Clarke noted that he wrote the story for a contest in the London Observer on the subject ‘‘2500 AD.’’ ‘‘I realized that I had a theme already to hand. The story was written in a state of unusually intense emotion; needless to say, it wasn’t even placed among the ‘also rans.’’’ The story deals with themes treated in a work by H. G. Wells also titled ‘‘The Star’’ (1897). In Wells’s story, a planetoid’s collision with Jupiter and the destruction of that planet chillingly reminds the human race that it could just as easily have been destroyed. Clarke’s story similarly places the human race in an intergalactic context that suggests that the planet Earth and its inhabitants may not be all that important in the cosmic scheme of things.
Religion, and in particular religious faith, are central themes in ‘‘The Star.’’ The narrative is the interior monologue of the central character, a Jesuit astrophysicist. He is aboard a starship on a mission to investigate the causes of a supernova in a distant galaxy. He and the rest of the crew discover the artifacts of a highly developed civilization, carefully preserved on the only planet that remains in orbit around the supernova. Knowing that all life would be wiped out when their sun flared into a supernova, this race of sentient beings left a record of who they were and what they accomplished. The pictures, sculptures, music, and other relics of a very human-like race doomed to destruction depress the crew and investigating scientists, who are far from their own homes and lonely. What the narrator has learned but not yet communicated to the others is that the supernova that destroyed this civilization was the Star of Bethlehem, which burned brightly in the sky to herald the birth of Jesus Christ. His discovery has caused him to reexamine and to question his own faith.
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sacolton
The Jehovah's Witness religion is FAR REMOVED from Christian orthodox teachings that it not considered Christian at all. They have literally stripped EVERYTHING that is considered Christian from their theocratic doctrine.
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orangefatcat
Blondie that is very interesting thanks for sharing that with us.
Orangefatcat.
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Leolaia
That's right Joe. You see Purim was instituted by the Jews and the very day that Satan instituted as a day of death for the Jews was turned around as a victorious celebration for them.
Another example is Hannukah. This celebrates the rededication of the Temple on Chislev 25 -- the very day that the Temple had been defiled by a sacrifice on the "abomination of desolation" three years earlier (1 Maccabees 1:59, 4:36-54, 2 Maccabees 10:1-9). This was a holiday that Jesus himself was portrayed as observing (John 10:22-24). What is interesting also is that the date was originally chosen by the Syrian King Antiochus IV Epiphanes to dedicate the Temple to the Syrian god Baal-Shamen. This was a chief god similar to Zeus but who also in the Hellenistic era was identified with the sun (cf. Philo of Byblos, in Eusebius, Praeparatio Evangelica 1.10.7).
So the date of Hannukah has "pagan origins". Why did Antiochus choose Chislev 25? If 1 Maccabees 1:59 is compared with 2 Maccabees 6:7, which describes monthly sacrifices in the Temple on the day of the king's birthday, the possibility arises that the 25th of the month was the day of Antiochus' birthday. This accords with the common practice in the Seleucid era for kings to have their birthdays celebrated cultically with sacrifice every month (cf. the Rosetta Stone which in 196 BC directed that the king's birthday and the day of his accession "are to be celebrated as festivals and holidays in the temples of Egypt each month and sacrifices and libations are to be performed in them", 2.47-48). But since Antiochus portrayed himself as a manifestation of the god Baal-Shamem, it is possible that the birthday was that of the god. If the Baal-Shamem of Antiochus was indeed identified with the sun, there is an interesting coincidence with the date of the winter solstice. In 168 BC, the winter solstice fell on Chislev 22 -- exactly a week after the abomination of desolation was installed in the Temple and three days before sacrifice was given in the Temple to Baal-Shamem. A few centuries later, a Syrian named Elagabalus became emperor (who ruled from AD 203 to 222) and he introduced into the West a solstice festival that came to be called Dies Natalis Sol Invicti. The cult of Sol Invicti is generally thought to derive from the Syrian cult of El-Gabal "El of the mountain", a god similar to Zeus that was also solarized as a sun god. The holiday celebrated the "birth" of the sun on the day after the solstice (fixed as December 25 in the Julian calendar because that was the day after the solstice in 46 BC when the calendar was adopted, even though the solstice by AD 200 actually occurred on December 21 due to the drift of the calendar), cf. Antiochus of Athens who called December 25 "birthday of the sun, light increases" (héliou genethlion, auxei phós). There is no direct evidence that such a festival existed in the time of Antiochus IV, but it is possible that the birthday celebrated on Chislev 25 was supposed to be that of the sun. In either case, it is clear that the date itself has a "pagan origin", chosen by a pagan king for some sort of cultic observance, but that the meaning of the date changed when the Maccabees removed the abomination of desolation and rededicated the Temple on the same day. And it was the feast of Dedication that Jesus is represented as observing in the gospel of John.
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carla
marking
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Mickey mouse
Wow. More stuff I didn't know!
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Blueblades
Does history support that all the boys 2 years of age and under were murdered by Herod?
Blueblades
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cameo-d
This is an interesting topic.
they saw the star in the east.
You just broke one of the Masonic codes.
In Eastern Star (the women's masonic organization) when you see someone with a star ring or wearing a charm or other insignia, they have code phrases instead of handshakes like the men do.
The dialogue starts by asking "Have you seen the star in the East?"
Then the other person gives the canned response. The prepared dialogue continues for awhile so you can be sure the other person is a member. Status is revealed through the length of the continued dialogue.
I suppose this should confirm that there was something occult in that bible story of the star leading the Magi.
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Kenneson
What I find interesting is that the Magi were Gentiles and they acknowledged Jesus, yet his own nation did not. They came for the expressed purpose of doing him homage. When they arrived they bowed down to him as royalty. They also presented him with gifts. Although they arrived after the fact, why couldn't we consider these birthday gifts?