Star of Bethlehem = Satan?

by sacolton 33 Replies latest jw friends

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  WTWizard

  If that was Satan, then I am ordering more of them.

  The real Satan would not have had Jesus killed. That was the plot of men who were afraid of losing their own power, and they were willing to do whatever it took to make sure their power was protected. As I remember, the real Satan actually wanted mankind to successfully live apart from God, and having Jesus killed would not have served that purpose.

  Plus, Jesus effectively did the same thing. So killing Jesus would not have served Satan's real purposes.
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  peacefulpete

  The WT folks had to come up with a way to dismiss the obvious because they do not appreciate the author's objective. He was liberally appending the rather laconic tale of Jesus as found today in Mark with new material that the story had accumulated through popularization and syncretism. This becomes much more clear when reading other religio/political texts of the day. Leolaia gave a link to another thread where she presents a number of references to texts that illuminate the period of Christian origins and early development. IT MERITS READING. The WT have got their panties in a knot about the "Magi" playing some role in the tale other than as satanic pawns. Jewish literature of the day often took the position that their god was a universal god and perceptive nonJews, even nonproselytes recognized him. In their mind this made their god greater, in the JW mind it makes him compromising. The WT having an even greater distain for nonJWs than the Jewish author of Matthew had of nonJews cannot stomach the story as it reads. Either that or they just see conspiracies everywhere.
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  Awakened at Gilead

  Leolaia wrote in her posted link:

  The star accompanying Mary's pregnancy is related in Ignatius, Ephesians 19:2-3 in rather mythological terms (the star outshining all others and leading other stars together with the sun and moon to circle around it in a chorus, cf. the variant account in the Protevangelium of James 21:2) as occurring at the moment when the evil heavenly aeons were thrown into utter disarray -- this hints at a Chaoskampf theme in which the power of evil is defeated by divine providence. In Revelation 12, we have the birth of the messiah child occuring at the same time "a great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven" (v. 1), and the pregnant mother of the messiah is described in astral terms with "a crown of twelve stars on her head" with the sun and moon, paralleling the chorus of sun, moon, and stars in Ignatius (and cf. Isis as the "queen of heaven" associated with the sun, moon, and stars). But also interesting is the fact that the birth of the messiah child is threatened by the Dragon (= the Devil) who wants to kill the child "the moment it was born" (v. 5), and then the child was snatched into safety into God's presence and the mother "fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God" (v. 6). This constitutes a strong parallel with Matthew's plot of Herod endeavoring to kill Jesus and Mary fleeing with the child into Egypt (= the desert). The same story also relates a classic Chaoskampf battle between the angels of heaven (= the aeons of Ignatius) and the Dragon, with the Dragon defeated at the time the child's mother fled into the desert with the help of an eagle (v. 7-9, 13-14). The seemingly independent myth about the coming of the Savior in the Apocalypse of Adam parallels both Revelation and Matthew, without an overt Chaoskampf motif: "He came from a virgin womb. He was cast out of his city, he and his mother; he was brought to a desert place... And a bird came, took the child who was born and brought him onto a high mountain. And he was nourished by the bird of heaven. An angel came forth there and said to him, 'Arise, God has given you glory,' and thus he received glory and power" (78:6-26). So it is possible that the plot of sign in heaven during birth pangs > virgin birth > child threatened by forces of evil > child and mother escape to a desert place is an older mytheme that has different expressions in Revelation, Ignatius, the Apocalypse of Adam, and Matthew -- where in the case of the latter Herod takes the role that the Devil has in Revelation 12. But what is interesting about the myth in Revelation 12 is that it shows multiple parallels with the Egyptian myth of Horus Harpocrates-Isis-Typhon and the Greek myth of Apollo-Leto-Python. Herodotus (Historiae 2.156) in the fifth century BC showed that the Greek myth was a version of the Egyptian one, and the story was elsewhere related in variant forms in the Metternich Stele, Plutarch, De Iside 355-358, Lucan, Pharsalia 5.80-98, and Hyginus, Fabulae 140. In these stories, Leto/Isis -- pregnant by Zeus/Osiris -- was pursued by the great dragon Python/Typhon because he has learned that she would bear a child who would kill him, and she flees to a secret place with the help of the south wind (cf. the similar role of the wings of an eagle in Revelation) and the god Poseidon, and she gives birth to Apollo/Horus who then returns and defeats Python/Typhon and takes his authority to rule as king. It is certainly unclear whether the Leto/Isis myth underlies the whole birth > threat > flight plot pertaining to the birth of Jesus, since John of Patmos could have secondarily employed it in Revelation (along with some influence from Genesis 2-3) just as the author of Matthew secondarily appealed to traditions of the birth of Moses. But since the story in Matthew is so interested in Egypt both in terms of Moses and in terms of Jesus fleeing there, it is possible that the Egyptian myth (or some Hellenistic version of it) is not irrelevant to the Matthean story but played some role in the development of its underlying traditions.

  I posted earlier on this thread:

  Maybe the star adds weight to the argument that the belief in Jesus had its basis in Greek mythology and astrology?

  Thanks Leo for providing further backup for this concept.
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  StAnn

  I am 29, and I was taught from birth that the star of Bethlehem is really Satan!!!! Also, that originally the Magi were sent to kill Jesus, as well as any other first born, but that Jehovah made them have visions in their dreams that caused them to become good, and actually seek Jesus out to give him the gifts.

  Now, think about what I just said. If YHWH God really did change their heart attitude and they became good, then wouldn't logic and common sense dictate that YHWH God, NOT Satan, made the Star of Bethlehem in order to guide them????

  WC -- Using this reasoning, there is no free will. Why couldn't God just cause everyone to become good, so that he wouldn't have to destroy them at Armageddon? If he could change the heart attitude of the Magi, he could change the heart attitude of us all. Don't logic and common sense dictate that, if he is a God of love, that he would change our hearts rather than destroy us?

  Hence, no room for free will in that.

  The WTS put their foot in it with that logic.

  Serena