For the Atheists... I Need some Answers....

by AllTimeJeff 44 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • parakeet
    parakeet

    In light of my above comments, I would like to start a respectful conversation with anyone, but especially atheists, as to the benefits of ruling out with certainty the existence of a higher power or god. (I know not all atheists do this, but some do, as some heated debates on this board in the past have revealed....)

    One can be an atheist, i.e. have nonbelief in the existence of a personal god, yet still find spirituality. Native American religions, Zen Buddhism, Taoism, Wicca (which is not satanism) stress the direct experience of the divine, which is unexplainable in words and accessible only through experience.

    Any words these spiritual philosophies use, such as God, Goddess, the Tao, the Void, are used to help the student to understand and eventually directly experience the life force, energy, power, whatever you want to call it, that flows through everything and is everything. Then words become unnessesary. It can't be experienced from someone else's account.

    No one can rule out with certainty the existence of the Biblical God, just as no one can rule out with certaintly that aliens from other planets walk among us. For me, that makes the question of the existence or nonexistence of a personal God a semi-interesting subject that goes nowhere. Even if the nonexistence of God could be proven, I don't see any benefits resulting from it. People do not practice Christianity because it's logical. They practice it because it fufills their emotional needs.

    Substance abusers for example can join AA or other 12 step programs. Who would argue, even if you are dead set against god and religion, that it is better to believe in a superstitious god then to continue with a deadly addiction?

    AA and other 12-step programs do not require a belief in God, only in a higher power, which for atheists can be the Tao, the Zen concept of the void, or even the AA group itself. Anyone with an addiction and a desire to be free of it, whether or not they're religious, is welcome at the 12-step meetings.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Sorry for the threadjack, ATJ. I thought some who didn't see it earlier might take a look-see.

    Burn, it does seem as if our DNA has been overwritten. But, by whom? For what purpose?

    Oops! Sorry again, ATJ.

    Sylvia

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    But, by whom? For what purpose?

    Someone HUGE. We are going to find out pretty soon.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    "12-step programs do not require a belief in God, only in a higher power"

    Could that be the irs? If you believe in the irs, you can join aa?

    S

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    The IRS is a lower power. I was offered employment there recently. Good money. Tempting since I have been out of a job for over a month. I would rather starve.

    BTS

  • parakeet
    parakeet

    Satanus: "12-step programs do not require a belief in God, only in a higher power"

    Could that be the irs? If you believe in the irs, you can join aa?"

    AA stresses that the addict must recover "one day at a time." If the IRS gets you through the day, then so be it.

  • parakeet
    parakeet

    I must add, however, that any addict that chooses the IRS as his higher power is one sick puppy.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Well, at least it doesn't require human and animal sacrifices. Also, it doesn't condemn you for living a normal life.

    S

  • BabaYaga
    BabaYaga
    AllTimeJeff said: After a while, you peel the onion and there isn't anything more to peel, and you realize that you have wasted a perfectly good onion....

    Now THAT'S a great quote! Beautiful. But perhaps the problem is that all of the layers you are exploring are the tangible, measurable ones?

    As for what benefit might come from being so adamant about one's atheism, you might like to read Dawkin's controversial "God Delusion". From what I gather, he feels that it is child abuse to raise a child within the lie of the existence of a god.

    As for my own views, I like Satanus' description:

    It appears to me that a deep awareness flows through us, finding it's way through experience, expression and creativity by us. I don't see it as a HIGHER power, and emphatically not a SUPREME power. In a way, since we are the cutting edge of this awareness in this dimension, front line pioneer explorer/experimenters, so to speak, i say that we are as high or higher than it is.
  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Meaning and purpose in life- each life has to seek it's own meaning.
    As far as a great purpose for our being here- there is not one.

    Many theists tie morality to believing. There are more terrible acts
    committed by theists than atheists, but that is ignored. Atheists are
    not immoral because of their disbelief.

    Perhaps the only real offer of food for thought I can give you is that
    RELIGION (not belief) has led people to do things and pass on odd
    ways of thought to their offspring. Here's a link to a video on that:
    http://smashingtelly.com/2007/01/19/richard-dawkins-the-root-of-all-evil/

    Belief has encouraged the shutting down of the thought processes and
    just accepting what one was brought up to believe.

    Other than that, I see no problem with keeping an open mind as far as
    agnosticism rather than a staunch belief that there is no god. I think that
    each person must make their own "spiritual journey" in life. If one person's
    journey means positive thoughts and harmony but not necessarily control
    from a higher power, then that is wonderful. "Spiritual" doesn't have to
    mean "Godly" or any form of it. It's what you make of it.

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