by wobble 389 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Passwordprotected, Tenyearsafter, LeavingWT, Mary, Besty, Wobble, IsaacAustin, QuietlyLeaving and even sometimes OUTLAW: You all make me proud to be an apostate! |
thankyou Bizzybee.
I'm wondering if Reniaa has gone quiet because she is thinking deeply about what we've said
quietlyleaving, thanks. I am quite flattered. :)
Regaridng whether Reniaa is thinking deeply on what we have told her...one can only hope but if her track record is any indicator she has simply run out of ammunition and is trying to figure out how to reload.
more than likely
passwordprotected, leavingwt and tenyearsafter : Shortly after I started posting on this thread besty asked me whether I am an active JW in good standing. I answered then (2/10/2009) that "I lean more towards slimboyfat's theology of an Agnostic for Jehovah. I really only joined this thread as I think it's very one-sided and the sarcasm used is unworthy of people interested in truth". Apart from my little excursion into appointment due to willingness to change beliefs, which was quite correctly demolished by wobble and besty, I have tried to present the JW viewpoint as it really is rather than as various strawmen that have been set up and knocked down. If this is not to simply be a thread of self-congratulation but one that will make people think about their beliefs then I do think (as I said) misrepresentation and ridicule is particularly unhelpful.
While I don't think my answers to your questions are particularly pertinent as I have proclaimed myself agnostic (i.e. not knowing) I am quite happy to answer them.
1. Can any of us, especially the "born ins", honestly say that they truly studied or examined other religions?
Probably not. That is not to say that there hasn't been examination of other religions using their own literature but I have to say I doubt it has been impartial. I know I studied the beliefs of the Mormons in depth, using the 'Book of Mormon', 'Pearl of Great Price' and 'Doctrines and Covenants' but the intention was always to see how wrong they were, not to see if they were right.
2. Do I believe that JWs are more in harmony with the Bible and early Christians than other faiths?
I fear it will sound very presumptuous and it is not meant that way...I do not consider myself qualified to judge anyone's faith...but I do not see any faith today which seems to me to be in harmony with the Bible and early Christians.
3. Are Jehovah's Witnesses God's organization?
I do not believe God has chosen any "organization" since he chose the nation of Israel at Sinai, if you choose to describe them as an organization. I find the term "organization" quite unnatural when referring to the Christian congregation and cringe when it is used in that way.
4. If Armageddon arrives tomorrow, will any self-described Christians of other denominations survive?
Without going into the question of whether Revelation is canonical, I would simply say I don't think that being saved or destroyed will be constrained by membership of any denomination. That is not how Jesus or Paul describes the criteria.
5. I'm unclear what would be the motivation for being an "Agnostic for Jehovah".
There is no motivation. Have a look at slim's thread to see what I mean. Perhaps slim is God but he denies it so I remain an agnostic.
Earnest.."The second reason is that it has been stated a number of times in WT literature that it is essential to align oneself with Jehovah's Witnesses in order to benefit from God's provisions including being saved through Armageddon."...So you have to align yourself with the WBT$ to be saved through armageddon..???..LOL!!..Thats what I`ve been telling you......You can only be saved,if your an Active JW,providing free labour for the WBT$.....JESUS CAN`T SAVE YOU!!..You`ve just made an arguement..Against yourself!!..LOL!! Whether this was the effect the GB wanted is open to debate but this is not what the articles were about, they were simply about how the expression was used in scripture. It seems obvious to me that this difference was lost on many Witnesses and so remains a cause of contention...Nonsense!..Just because Jehovah`s Witness`s are confused about almost everything..Does not invalidate the WBT$ is thier mediator....The FDS is part of the WBT$..Which organization do you think the FDS belongs to?..#1;Kentucky Fried Chicken?..#2:The Hong Kong Import Company?..#3:The WBT$?...If you Guessed the WBT$!!..Your Correct!!..LOL!! As far as the second reason is concerned, I gave the analogy of the foreigners (non-Jews) who went with the Israelites when they left Egypt and asked the questions : What do you think? Was it God or the nation of Israel that saved this mixed crowd that fled with the Israelites when they passed through the Red Sea? Was it God or the nation of Israel that provided them with manna and water in the Wilderness? Yet...would the Red Sea have been opened for them if they had not been with the Israelites? Would manna and water have been provided if they were not "aligned" with the Israelites?..I could care less about the Frigg`n Isrealites..Isrealites have nothing to do with the WBT$ or Jehovah`s Witness`s..Niether does a Menu in a Chinese Restaurant..Try to stay focused Earnest..LOL!! I accept this begs the question as to whether such analogies can be applied to JWs...No Sh*t!!..LOL!!
You may not accept that the term "spiritual Israel" applies to "the anointed"..The WBT$ makes a lot of claims..It`s all Bullsh*t!! "but JWs themselves do not believe the Watch Tower Society or any group within it are their saviours rather than God and Jesus Christ"...Read your own Frigg`n words Earnest!!.."The second reason is that it has been stated a number of times in WT literature that it is essential to align oneself with Jehovah's Witnesses in order to benefit from God's provisions including being saved through Armageddon."..........We`ve come full circle on your post to me..And..You beat the Crap,out of Yourself!!..LOL!!.......Why not just give up!..You don`t stand a chance against yourself!!..LOL!!
...OUTLAW
I am having a bit of trouble trying to figure something out concerning Reniaa: the countless threads on two forums that are related to "Do I really want to go back into the WTS"......and the excellent replies as to why she should not bother...and yet, back from vacation and with the very same questions and arguments that she has expressed MANY TIMES over these past months...(perhaps worded a bit differently)~
Does anyone ELSE get the feeling (as I do) that we should just, 1) stop entertaining her monotonous and repetitive questions and 2) wish her well with her endeavors to completely throw herself back into the WTS rat race and allow herself TO be controlled by the masters of deception for the rest of her natural life?
It would seem that posters have made absolutely NO HEADWAY in changing her already made up mind anyway.....so what is there to be possibly gained at this point?
Annie
I realize my last post may have sounded rather harsh....but it just gets to the point that when someone wants THAT BADLY to defend whatever the WTS does and teaches....they they WOULD be happier if they stayed in it. Why should we try and change her mind? Ones that do this have already MADE their choice and are looking to justify that choice. They (and she) do not NEED our permission OR will we ever agree to her choice for ourselves because we are well past the point of defending the WTS ever again.
I might want to ask Reniaa....just why IS IT you are really here on these two boards? Are you looking for US to convince you to get OUT of her....or are you trying to convince US the WTS is really "God's only true religion"?
Annie
Annie..Your post is not harsh..Many people feel the same way.....Reniaa is a WBT$ advocate..This her Soap Box..
...OUTLAW
Earnest, thank you.
I think we probably disagree about the "various strawmen" on this thread, but if your desire is to see ACCURATE criticism of valid false teachings of JWs, then you and I are partners in crime. I'm fairly new around here, so I didn't know your story. I clicked on your profile, but didn't see any details.
I think Don Cameron's book, Captives of a Concept does a thorough job of fleshing out the 1919 selection meme.
Cheers,
LWT
There are two reasons that it is suggested the FDS is the mediator for Jehovah's Witnesses. The first is that it has been stated a number of times in WT literature that when the Bible uses the term 'mediator' it is used in a legal and contractual sense and when it refers to Jesus it only applies to the "anointed" as they are in a covenant with him. The second reason is that it has been stated a number of times in WT literature that it is essential to align oneself with Jehovah's Witnesses in order to benefit from God's provisions including being saved through Armageddon.
