by wobble 389 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Outlaw said: "Annie..Your post is not harsh..Many people feel the same way.....Reniaa is a WBT$ advocate..This her Soap Box.."
Yes....it sure seems to be the case.....but it would be good if she herself would clarify this for us.
Whaddya think, Reniaa?
hugs,
Annie
Thanks BizzyBee...I just call 'em like I see 'em
Earnest, thanks for the honest answers...
Reniaa, I think Sunspot has a point...are you looking to be convinced that JW's are wrong or are you trying to convince everyone else here that they are right? If you are convinced they are right (and you certainly give that impression), then you are endangering your spiritual life by posting on this board! I am sure you have heard this from others on here, but if you were a member of the congregation and it was know you were posting here (even if you are pro-JW), you would be strongly counseled at a minimum and most likely reproved or DF'ed for improper association or even apostasy. I hope you find peace and what you are seeking.
Why should we try and change her mind? Ones that do this have already MADE their choice and are looking to justify that choice. They (and she) do not NEED our permission OR will we ever agree to her choice for ourselves because we are well past the point of defending the WTS ever again.
Good question, Sunspot. I know, after 30+ years out of the organization, that I am not looking for justification for my choice.
But, as I grow older and should be more at peace with acceptance, I find that there is a bittersweet regret that my life's course was launched from a place of coerced compliance when I was too young to think or speak for myself. Sweet that I began to extricate myself at 23, but bitter that it cost me dreams and opportunities that should have been nurtured from the earliest years in order to be fulfilled. Instead, a scramble of bad choices and mis-steps, without the time and resources needed to correct them. The damage to a life begins to increase exponentially and pick up speed.
The choices we make when we are young - education, marriage - have repercussions long beyond the manifestations of their visible parameters. And so, there is a deepening sense of the travesty of young, vulnerable minds being used up like so much fodder for the self-serving machinations of a religious sect that promises so much and delivers so little.
I guess, Sunspot, that it isn't so much about convincing anybody, including myself, of the falseness of the JW sect - that is long, long ago and sadly filed away under "Ancient History." It is a need to express the attendant feelings of having been duped and misled. If someone else can be persuaded to cut short this mental slavery - so much to the good.
Sunspot, I wouldn't worry to much about Reniaa or her endless ramblings which most of the time, makes no damn sense. Reniaa has been a Witness right from her very first post on here. She's one of those Dubs who thinks that if they try and claim that they're NOT a Witness, then when she tries defending their wacked-out doctrines, that it somehow gives the JW's more credibility.
It hasn't exactly worked out the way Reniaa thought. First of all, she was ill-prepared for the hard questions we've asked her which has been backed up by the Borg's own words. We've quoted numerous points from their own literature, showing that they're a bunch of liars, con artists, hypocrites and control freaks. Reniaa has either ignored our questions, or, in an attempt to deflect from the issues at hand, tries asking us inane questions as a response (we all learned how to do that out in Service), and when it gets too hot for her, she simply leaves, then comes back later and starts her ridiculous crap up again.
Why she's even on here is anyone's guess. We tried to get her to THINK outside the box but apparently her brain power isn't what is should be. She has not been able to successfully defend ANY of their doctrines on here but keeps on deluding herself that she's right and we're all wrong.
OUTLAW : In your only comment which made any attempt to address my post you said :
I could care less about the Frigg`n Isrealites
I presume you mean you couldn't care less about the copulating Israelites, but whatever you mean it is quite clear you are either unwilling or unable to hold an intelligent discussion on the subject. Please post again when you are sober.
besty :
The core problem is that the rank and file JW's are unable to discern any difference between the WTS and Jehovah/Jesus. They are all part of the same thing - Gods Government in heaven and on earth - there is no distinction possible.
Agreed, in the sense that Jehovah/Jesus and the FDS are all part of the same thing - God's Government in heaven and on earth.
And so the FDS becomes the de facto source of salvation for the 0.1% of humanity affiliated with them.
This is what I have been saying in my analogy with the "foreigners" who travelled with the Israelites out of Egypt. These ones were saved because they affiliated themselves with the nation of Israel but it was Jehovah who opened the Red Sea etc.
leavingwt : Hi partner! I haven't put my details in my profile but slim sums up my sentiments in his thread where he speaks of
[those] who still feel an affinity to the values of the Jehovah figure of the Bible but without dogmatism...
we would aim to promote positive aspects of our spiritual heritage while seeking to mitigate potentially
harmful aspects of current Witness practices.
I think Don Cameron's book, Captives of a Concept does a thorough job of fleshing out the 1919 selection meme.
I haven't read it. Thanks for the recommendation.
BizzyBee, Mary, isaacaustin, Sunspot et al. :
Please read again the excellent post from leavingwt (post 1347) where he said :
"People will choose the TRUTH over a LIE in almost all cases, once they see things for what they are."
Earnest sez
This is what I have been saying in my analogy with the "foreigners" who travelled with the Israelites out of Egypt. These ones were saved because they affiliated themselves with the nation of Israel but it was Jehovah who opened the Red Sea etc.
We are basically on the same page here - the point you make above is a distinction without a difference
The end result is the same - namely - the prospect of future salvation depends on the WTS and even then, their literature makes it clear it is a 'group based' salvation, not personal.
Can you hear C-U-L-T?
Earnest, you have a PM.
-LWT
oh well...I guess reniaa is no longer a member of JWD LOL
Earnest.."I presume you mean you couldn't care less about the copulating Israelites,..Unless your a total idiot.You know the WBT$,the144,000 and Jehovah`s Witness`s have nothing to do with the Isrealites..The WBT$ can make up any story they like,it`s all Bullsh*t..Much like your reply.. but whatever you mean it is..I`m laughing at you Earnest..Your replys are nonesense.. quite clear you are either unwilling or unable to hold an intelligent discussion on the subject...I`m doing my best,you seem to be "Stuck on Stupid".. Please post again when you are sober."..I`m very sober Earnest..If your incapable of an intellegent reply,simply say so..LOL!! The discussion is about "whether the WBT$ claims to be both Saviour and Mediator for the JW`s with the exception of the 144,000"....................I have`nt recieved an intelligent response from you yet.....Would you like to give it another try?.....Please don`t post again about Isrealites,they have no idea about whether the WBT$ claims to be both saviour and mediator for the Jehovah`s Witness`s..LOL!!.....Please don`t tell me the FDS is not part of the WBT$ again.....If you think they are part of another organization please tell me which one..Perhaps the "Kentucky Fried Chicken Corporation?..Or..The Hong Kong Import Company?..LOL!!.........Concentrate Earnest!!..Try to post something sane..LOL!!
...OUTLAW
Thanks to all that replied to me.....I have dealt with Lolly/Reniaa on another forum and had agreed to disagree on all the points being discussed. When I saw her posting here with pretty much the same arguments....I wondered "what gives?" with her. As the old line from the "King and I" goes.......Tis A Puzzlement!
hugs,
Annie
