Isaacaustin..My understanding is Freddy did`nt have any formal education in Hebrew or Greek........He applied to Roades and was accepted......But..Never followed through on his acceptence.......Fred was self educated..Oddly he could only translate one way..I don`t remember if it was Greek to English..Or English to Greek........I remember reading a court case,where Fred was asked to translate and could`nt do it..............................OUTLAW
I need proof for my wife that NW Translation is not correct
by Albert Einstein 118 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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isaacaustin
You are correct Outlaw- I stand corrected. And yes, in The Walsh trial Freddie Kruger...I mean Franz...could not translate simple Hebrew. He was self-taught.
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Mattieu
Hey, while all you scholars (written respectfully) are all on this thread, could you help me out with the NWT of the scripture where Jesus promised the criminal on his deathbed that he would be with him in paradise???
I too need proof for wifey that the NWT translation is incorrect on this one.
With much appreciation, Mattieu.
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Wannabe 5go again
In my opinion no translation is correct. All of them suffer from the same bending to fit current beliefs of the day. In fact there was no official bible for a good chunk of the start of the movement and no two early congregations kept the same set of books the made up the early bibles.
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Chalam
Hi Mattiew,
Ask an you shall receive, seek and you will find!
OK every time the greek phrase ?μ?ν λ?γω σοι is translated in the bible "truly I say to you", grammatically it makes sense to put a comma in modern English immediately after it. The NWT does this in every instance where the phrase appears in the NWT except Luke 23:43. To put the comma after the phrase would go against the WTBTS doctrine and the truth of the words Jesus was speaking i.e. on that actual day, the thief would be with Jesus in paradise, not today Jesus was saying that at some point the thief would be with Jesus in paradise. Very subtle they move it and change the meaning of the text totally. See for yourself...
Matthew 26:34 NWT Jesus said to him: “Truly I say to you, On this night, before a cock crows, you will disown me three times.”
John 3:5 NWT “Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:11 NWT Most truly I say to you, What we know we speak and what we have seen we bear witness of, but YOU people do not receive the witness we give.
John 13:38 NWT Jesus answered: “Will you surrender your soul in my behalf? Most truly I say to you, A cock will by no means crow until you have disowned me three times.”
John 21:18 NWT Most truly I say to you, When you were younger, you used to gird yourself and walk about where you wanted. But when you grow old you will stretch out your hands and another [man] will gird you and bear you where you do not wish.”
Luke 23:43 NWT And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”
So have you asked the Holy Spirit to come and show you the truth when you read the bible? Unless you do, you can find a thousand mistranslations in the NWT and never find the truth i.e. Jesus.
Even more importantly, you need to be born again John 3:3. Then the Holy Spirit will live within you and be your guide John 14:15-17 John 14:26 John 15:26 John 15:26.
Keep us posted!
All the best,
Stephen
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Chalam
Of course I should add that punctuation does not exist in the original greek scripture at all. Thus, it is up to the translator where they put it. However, every other translator put the comma after the phrase for the grammatical reasons I have mentioned and therefore the inference that the thief will be with Jesus on that day!
International Standard Version (©2008)
Jesus said to him, "I tell you with certainty, today you will be with me in Paradise."New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Jesus said to him, "I can guarantee this truth: Today you will be with me in paradise."King James Bible
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.American King James Version
And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, To day shall you be with me in paradise.American Standard Version
And he said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To-day shalt thou be with me in Paradise.Bible in Basic English
And he said to him, Truly I say to you, Today you will be with me in Paradise.Douay-Rheims Bible
And Jesus said to him: Amen I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise.Darby Bible Translation
And Jesus said to him, Verily I say to thee, To-day shalt thou be with me in paradise.English Revised Version
And he said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in Paradise.Webster's Bible Translation
And Jesus said to him, Verily I say to thee, This day shalt thou be with me in paradise.Weymouth New Testament
"I tell you in solemn truth," replied Jesus, "that this very day you shall be with me in Paradise."World English Bible
Jesus said to him, "Assuredly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise."Young's Literal Translation
and Jesus said to him, 'Verily I say to thee, To-day with me thou shalt be in the paradise.'The other test is the rest of the bible, it should have the same doctrine. Try these for example.
Philippians 1:21-24 (New International Version)
21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.
2 Corinthians 5:8 (New International Version)
8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
So what do they say? Clearly, if (believers) leave their body they go to be with Christ. Where is He right now? At the right hand of the Father in the Third Heaven 2 Corinthians 12:2
But ask the Holy Spirit, he knows the questions you both need answering :)
All the best,
Stephen
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Earnest
I thought Jesus was in hell for three days after his death. Is there a paradise in hell?
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reniaa
chalam proves the point grammer is upto the translator so the NWT is not incorrect in this case Just different.
were is paradise?
Genesis 2:9
And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.Revelation 2:7
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.paradise is shown by God's word to be earthly were adam was if you try to make it heavenly you are contradicting the bible.
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Chalam
I thought Jesus was in hell for three days after his death. Is there a paradise in hell?
OK the main reasoning given to this teaching is found in these verses Acts 2:27, Romans 10:6-7, Ephesians 4:8-9, 1 Peter 3:18-20
If you check them out, none of the say Christ, while His body was in the grave went to Hell. There are explanations for these verses. I recommend the book Systematic Theology by Wayne Grudem if you are interested.
There is however, clear biblical opposition to this teaching.
Luke 23:43 we have been looking at already. The word paradise appears elsewhere in the NT
So where is paradise? Paul tells us elsewhere when describing the same experience
2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago ...
"Third heaven" is the answer.
Also the same greek word for paradise is found in this verse Revelation 2:7
So once again, where is the "paradise of God". The answer is that it is where the tree of life is as the verse mentions.
It is on the new earth after the New Jerusalem comes down "out of Heaven" Revelation 21:2 Revelation 21:10, where God dwells with His people at the end of the book, certainly not in Hell!
Revelation 22:2 Revelation 22:14 Revelation 22:19
In addition Jesus says "it is finished" John 19:30 it would seem that His suffering was over and the job was done, not that it would continue for three days in Hell.
Furthermore, when Jesus died, He committed His spirit into the Father's hands Luke 23:46 similar to Stephen in Acts 7:59
Hope that helps.
All the best,
Stephen
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Chalam
Hi reniaa,
Please read my post and the verses I have quoted. Your post is correct but not right now. Otherwise where is the tree of life on earth and I will go and eat its fruit?!
All the best,
Stephen