Leolaia, slimboyfat et al.

TheOldHippie

I read your posts, and the posts of others, and posts at other sites - posts that are full of research material of the sort you will have to spend the whole night going thru and trying to remotely get a grip of.

So I wonder - just how difficult do you - or others - feel that Christianity, Christian faith, "salvation" is meant to be? If you consider a Namib desert pygme, a Bhutan sherpa, a Yunnan farmer, an Andes mine worker, an amazonian jungle dweller, an Indian without caste, a big city sidewalk dweller - just how hard can it be meant for him / her to grasp the Gospel and gain hope of salvation? What is demanded by the salt of the earth people? Because, if one has the false understanding, if one does not belong to the correct creed, if one believes A in stead of B, one is doomed.

So where is the borderline where you start not seeing the trees because of all those damned leaves?

TOH

Narkissos

Because, if one has the false understanding, if one does not belong to the correct creed, if one believes A in stead of B, one is doomed.

Says who?

Want a simple (not necessarily easy) "way of salvation"? -- "Stop judging and you won't be judged."

(You can substitute a few other ones but to me this is among the simplest and shortest.)

Now if you don't want it that simple you choose the way of infinite complexity. Just don't expect complexity to stop at 4th-grade level...

"et al."

Sad emo

Nice, Narkissos

TOH, salvation isn't about what or how much you know or don't know - it's a condition of the 'heart'

Maybe a Bible verse which sums it up for me is this one from Micah 6:

He has showed you, O man, what is good.
And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God. (Whatever name you may give Him/Her!)

Leolaia

Plumbing the depths of literary and linguistic evidence in order to make certain historical points, as I have done in recent lengthy posts here (e.g. Did the Hebrews of the OT believe in an afterlife, When did stauros refer to the composite cross used in Roman crucifixion, Was the tetragrammaton original to the Septuagint, How was the written tetragramaton pronounced by first-century Jews, etc.) is altogether orthogonal to the religious question of salvation which need not at all be complex, depending on the variety of Judaism or Christianity you follow.

Although there is a complexity and depth of literary artistry in the book, the mesage in John is rather simple: believe in Jesus unconditionally. This is unqualified and presented as simply as possible. However the book also suggests some appropriate responses for those who believe in Jesus and follow him: you would look to Christ as an example to follow, you would love your fellow man, trust in Christ and come to him for help, etc. There are no qualifiers presented in the book or rules set forth. Different books take different approaches. But in the case of the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts, his conversion isn't presented as a complex affair at all. If you are interested in seeing how the JWs are different from the biblical example(s) of salvation, then it doesn't come any more starkly than that. Perhaps John is the most popular book in evangelism because it does present things so simply. Paul goes into lengthy legal and rhetorical debates on questions of justification and what not, but his audience is not new converts but established members of his churches challenging him on certain points. Paul distinguished giving milk and giving solid food.

John Doe

I like shiny things. What you got?

thomas15

Look here for the Gospel in 4 verses...1 Corinthians 15:1-4

Simple words, easy concept, few takers.

cluless

I would suggest the cold reality of" truth" can be debated.

If there comes a point that you feal its a filthy straw mattresses and you cant(Quote) "See the trees becauuse of the damned leaves" and connect with all the research material. Do what I do ignor the posts.

Clueless.#

wobble

Christ died, was raised, now get baptised dammit.

Simple aint it ?

love

Wobble

Chalam

I read your posts, and the posts of others, and posts at other sites - posts that are full of research material of the sort you will have to spend the whole night going thru and trying to remotely get a grip of.

LOL! So it's not just me :)

So I wonder - just how difficult do you - or others - feel that Christianity, Christian faith, "salvation" is meant to be?

You are asking the wrong people.

Matthew 19:14 (New International Version)

14 Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

Mark 10:14-15 (New International Version)

14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it."

Children do not have all night to read pages of research material. They just believe.

That is what salvation is about.

Mark 16:16 (New International Version)

16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Acts 8:12-13 (New International Version)

12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.

What to believe?

Acts 16:30-31 (New International Version)

30 He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household."

Romans 10:9 (New International Version)

9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Easy to understand for kids and big kids like me alike.

All the best, Stephen

possible-san

Chalam,