I think this perhaps is taking a wrong turn. If you go back to my original question, I was not trying to ask people in general "what is required for mysalvation?". I was more thinking of - do you not fear that you are looking that much into commas, punctuation, hidden meaning of Greek or Hebrew symbols or myths or borrowing from other religions or - whatever - that the Christian message is becoming too difficult to understand, too tough to handle?
Hi,
I agree that we are looking too deeply but I think you have to also then take into account the question "what is salvation". The scriptures are both plainly simple and easy to understand at one level but obviously are go as infinitely deep as the God they are describing.
So yes, the basic Christian message is simple to understand, God made, man sinned, God sent the law to show sin, God send His son to pay for sin, we choose His free gift of salvation to free us from the consequences of sin i.e. the second death.
However, if you want to get to a deeper understanding of each of these topics (and all the others) you are going to need to go a much deeper.
All along, my point is that there are two type of understanding, cranial and spiritual. The bible says you need to be born again and have the Holy Spirit living inside you to understand spiritually. No amount of Greek or Hebrews scholarship will help here or anything else, just the Spirit of Christ.
Because - on the other hand people here state that "all you need is turning to Jesus" (I am not trying to make fun of people), that it is simple, that you should only BELIEVE, that praying to and believeing in Christ is all that is necessary. Meetings, preaching, works, deeds - all is subordinate to believing in Jesus. But at the same time, you say that JWs will not be "saved". There are certain groups or certain kinds of people you are rather sure of that you will NOT meet in Heaven - or possible on a paradise Earth - and JWs are among them, as are perhaps Mormons, Greek Orthodix perhaps - and some are rather certain they will not meet Roman Catholics - some are certain they will not meet Methodists - some feel they will not meet Lutherans - and so it goes. So while you say that all one needs is believeing injesus, obviously you also think that the way JWs believe in Jesus is an incorrect way. So there are correct ways and incorrect ways. And then along come the long and winding postings where one deals with commas and myths and original Greek meaning of words etc. etc.
I agree, "turn to Jesus", simple. The bible says there is one way and one church. That church is multi-denominational but not multi faith. I believe I will see many Catholics in the New Jerusalem. Same with Methodists and similar others. Every doctrine we do not agree on but on the core, such as these we do:
1. Jesus is God. 2. The Holy Spirit is a person and is God 3. The Trinity is one true God, three persons 4. Christ died for our sin and was raised from the dead in a physical body. 5. There is a conscious place to spend eternity, Heaven or Hell. 6. Knowing Jesus (and Him knowing you) is what decides where you go, not works or anything else such as knowing fluent Koine Greek or biblical Hebrew.
I don't not believe I will see a single JW who believes the WT doctrine or either a single Mormon because they are contrary to the bible add to it, change it etc. This is where some knowledge helps but the Holy Spirit is the one you need to show you this. The Mormons and JWs argue differently but Jesus will judge.
And then along comes my friend, the Kalahari desert pygme, who cannot read or write and who tells me he was born four moons after the year when the wind was especially tough from the West and the river went high, and that he has a woman with whom he lives and as many children as he has fingers and some more - OK, along he comes and asks "what is needed for my salvation?" How much of the ancient Greek grammar would you require him to learn? Because you require of the JWs that they must learn it, as you constantly try to point out where and how they err in this respect.
Did my question ecome a bit clearer now, or did the fog of Mount McShadow fall even more upon it?
TOH
My apologies if I took the wrong turn! To answer this question regarding the uneducated, illiterate, poor or simple foreigner, if I can communicate the gospel in the simple terms I spoke of earlier, they feel the conviction of the words via the Holy Spirit, they respond with faith, believe in their heart and say "yes Jesus, me too" with their mouths then they have been saved.
Hope that helps :)
All the best,
Stephen
