Do you believe in MIRACLES?

by nicolaou 69 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  darthfader

  There are some amazing things happening in the universe and the Human mind is one of the most complex. I would hate to underestimate it's power.

  I like the thrid "Law" from Arthur Clarks entry In Wikipedia:

  Arthur C. Clarke formulated the following three "laws" of prediction:

  1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
  2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
  3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke's_three_laws

  Darth Fader...
• 

  PEC

  Ice Cream and Chocolate are miracles.

  Philip
• 

  BabaYaga

  DarthFader said:

  Arthur C. Clarke formulated the following three "laws" of prediction:

  When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.

  The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

  Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

  Nice! I love that... I will have to remember those.

  By the way, nice to meet you and great alias!
• 

  Narkissos

  The (modern) notion of "miracle" rests on a division of our imaginary map into two separate "countries": Nature and Supernature. Whether we count the second as "existent" or "non-existent" this dichotomy affects our perception of the first. Nature must be... natural, normal,explainable, rational, logical, subject to intelligible "laws", transparent to the sovereign logos. Made of entirely predictable "things" (in principle if not in fact); ultimately unsurprising.

  I think in ancient cultures (e.g. that which produced the Bible) there was no such absolute distinction; the realm of the gods and spirits was not "supernatural"; to the Wisdom tradition for instance it was just a part, an aspect of reality among others; Solomon the master of wisdom was supposed to know the spirits just like he knew the animals and plants. "Extraordinary events" which stood out of the ordinary course of things (whether perceived or told) were "signs," "wonders," "portents," "powerful demonstrations," but not intrusions of another world. They called for attention and interpretation, but not in the sense of "explanation". The world was not an object. It talked and people tried to understand. Sometimes it just talked louder.

  Now "reality" is wordless; we're doing all the talking.
• 

  nicolaou

  How about conception? That out of millions of sperm, one decided that there would be a Stewie and a Sylvia. I find that nothing short of a miracle.

  Couldn't that be seen as a very subjective assessment Sylvia? How about the majority of times when an egg goes unfertilised? How about spontaneous abortions, birth deformities and stillbirths?

  Conception is a special moment, one that fills any person with a sense of awe and wonder - none of that diminishes by denying that it is a miracle.

  Nic'
• 

  snowbird

  Couldn't that be seen as a very subjective assessment Sylvia?

  In your op, quoted below, you said nothing about subjectivity.

  I'll be honest and admit that I did. The 'Moses' miracles, solar miracles, Jesus miracles - everything. So no belief bashing from me on this one, I promise.

  All the same, how do you reconcile belief in miracles with that little voice in your head that says "hmmmmm?" Do you think miracles like 'healing' still happen today?

  Straight questions . . . .

  Nic'

  Sylvia
• 

  Witness 007

  I do believe! My gas Heater expolded and it would cost $640 dollar to repair! I reached into my wallet and low and behold gave the guy the cash..he fixed the heater like new....like a miricle I worked my ass off for a week and the money "appeared" in my wallet as if by magic....after cahing my salary cheque! WOW Praise Jesus!

  Have you people really never seen "The Life of Brian"........he's not the Messiah....he's just a very naughty boy!
• 

  BurnTheShips

  but not intrusions of another world.

  What a contrast to this modern mindset reflected in the following apologetic approach. More C.S. Lewis.

  When a thing professes from the very outset to be a unique invasion of Nature by something from outside, increasing knowledge of Nature can never make it more or less credible than it was at the beginning. In this sense it is mere confusion of thought to suppose that advancing science has made it harder to accept miracles. We always knew they were contrary to the natural course of events; we know still that if there is something beyond Nature, they are possible. Miracles (1974) p.76

  BTS
• 

  nicolaou

  Aww c'mon now Sylvia, you being evasive again? Why not answer my question? If a successful conception is a miracle what does that make all the unsuccessful ones? Antimiracles?!

  [No, no! I promised to behave in this thread ]
• 

  nicolaou

  BTS; That was a very clear and honest quote from Lewis and I respect him for his clarity. For me though his argument boils down to this;

  "No-one ever claimed that Miracles can be married to Reason. They can't, and so by the very definition of the word they are 'unreasonable'".

  Nic'