by allelsefails 421 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
isaacaustin
Post 1286
I disagree. The reference in Luke 21:24 to the Gentile Times by our Lord shows by means of the Greek Tense employed that the period was stillin progress and the the us eof kairos for 'times' is a Danielic reference to the 'seven times' which is further explained by the Revelation. Expositors agree that this period is eschatological running uo until the Parousia.,
scholar JW
isaacaustin
Post 1287
The context of Jeremiah 25 indicates that the desolation and servitude would beof a duration of seventy years. Plain and simple. Jeremiah describes the fact of the land being desolated, the domination of Judah by Babylon and the taking of Exiles, these events were fulfilled within the seventy years period as this is the only time reference that he describes. Josephus describes the situation in some detail and he agrees with this understanding of the seventy year period as traditionally presented by the 'celebrated WT scholars.
Your 609-539 BCE hypothesis does not work because the beginning date is too fuzzy and the end date finds the Jews still in Babylon as exiles serving the current king of Babylon. It does not work.
scholar JW
On The Way Out
The language of Jeremiah is not vague but quite specific and there is no reason to suggest that the seventy years was anything else but a definite historic period as supported by recent scholarship on this subject. The interpretation of the seventy years as a fixed period of servitude-desolation and exile from the Fall until the Return as promoted by the 'celebrated' ones is in agreement with Josephus' many references to this period.
There is no need for reound numbers here as this is simply an apostate gimmick aligned to that of the higher critic.
scholar JW
Mad Dawg
Yes I can and this is simply set out in the publications of the WT Society.
scholar JW
But let us suppose a case far from our expectations: Suppose that A.D. 1915 should pass with the world's affairs all serene and with evidence that the "very elect" had not all been "changed" and without the restoration of natural Israel to favor under the New Covenant.(Rom. 11:12,15.) What then? Would not that prove our chronology wrong? Yes, surely! And would not that prove a keen disappointment? Indeed it would! It would work irreparable wreck tothe Parallel dispensations and Israel's Double, and to the Jubilee calculations, and to the prophecy of the 2300 days of Daniel, and to the epoch called "Gentile Times," and to the 1260, 1290 and 1335 days, the latter of which marking the beginning of the Harvest so well fulfilled its prediction, "Oh, the blessedness of him that waiteth and cometh unto the 1335 days!" None of these would be available longer. What a blow that would be! One of the strings of our "harp" would be quite broken! Watch Tower Reprints, p.5368 (December, 1913)
"Parousia".................Scholar..AlanF kicked both yours and 3rd Witness`s ass,on the definition of that word...............If I want to know AlanF`s shoe size..All I have to do is check the boot mark he left on your ass..LOL!! How about giving us a few names that you can`t produce,of Celebrated WBT$ Scholars?..................................LOL!!...OUTLAW
Scholar - if the "times" of Daniel and the "times" of Revelation are related why do you believe in Daniel 1 time = 360 years but in Revelation 1 time = 1 year? I pointed out to do so is like matching up Nostradamus prophesies after the fact. You can make anything fit. Or like bennyK's quote above. Russell applied the "last days", Gentile times, Harvest time, and Jesus' "parousia" as king to completely different dates and prophecies and proved it scripturally! You can make the scriptures fit whatever you want if you allow the kind of fuzzy assumptions and leaps of logic you make here. Just like the new understanding of Generation - there was an article in 1981 proving that he generation could not scripturally mean the anointed, but now that is what it means and we can scripturally prove it. PS - It would be more convincing if you quote somebody instead of saying "expositors agree" or "celebrated WT scolars" these vague unverifiable references subtract from your arguement rather than adding to it. Just friendly constructive criticism.
allelsefails
Post 46
Eschatology requires interpretation and so with the use of 'times' in Revelation can be used as a prophetic formula in the understanding of other usages of this expression. The 'times' of Revelation pertain to historic events in connection with the True Church soon after the birth of the Kingdom so that would require a more literal interpretation. In Daniel we see that times has both a literal and figurative meaning as proven by the context. In short, one must pay close attention to the context of these expressions whether in Daniel or Revelation and also to pay close attention to the faithful and discrret slave which nicely utilizes the research done over may years by the 'celebrated WT scholars. I hope this helps.
scholar JW
OUTLAW
Scholar has made an ass of Alan F exposing him to be a fraud who does not even believe in the things he writes about. His credibility has been torn to shreds for he is an avowed atheist/agnostic and does not believe in the Bible and Christianity.
scholar JW
Scholar - Does not interpretation belong to God? Again using your theory of eschatological interpretation you can make anything fit these scriptures. It requires interpretation therefore any man can claim to have "interpretted" it. You make an incredible jump of logic that in Daniel there is a context that requires a literal and figurative meaning. You have not quoted anything that even suggests it. You still have quoted nothing to support your position. PS - Who (other than you) has ever celebrated a WT scholar? They are universally dimissed by all scholars I have read about. Just curious.
