My Weak Agnostic Testimony (page 4)

besty

so you don't concern yourself with probability when making decisions?

Atheism is ridiculous. Atheists are simply confusing the absence/remoteness of 'God' with non-existence of God. They are like a 5 year old child that stamps its feet and refuses to believe they have a father because that father left them at birth and has never returned.

All that evolutionists do is replace the word "God" with "chance". If you believe that this planet and all life on it resulted from blind chance you have even more faith than any religious person.

mouthy

Besty what a cheeky one you are...You do what the WT does ,take things out of context.
If you read what I said>I remember running out to the front of the house there was a grassy area
getting on my knees & thanking GOD!!!! I didnt ever pray so dont know why I did this ??/

exjdub

Or to put it another way Yadda Yadda 2:

Religion is ridiculous. Religious people are simply confusing the absence/remoteness of chance with non-existence of chance. They are like a 5 year old child that stamps its feet and refuses to believe the facts because it doesn't fit in with their fairy tale.

All that Religious people do is replace the word "chance" with "God". If you believe that this planet and all life on it resulted from a god you have even more faith than any athiest.

exjdub

mouthy

Betsy...I feel for you.... You say you have two kids!!!
if they were very,very ill.Do you think you would pray???
Ive been there 3 times... Yes they died!!! God only knows why!
But as the years have passed ,I THINK I understand why
they did...I do believe it was a HIGHER POWER whom I refer to as JESUS
who gave me the strength to look after two( three with my hubby)for
1 year & 7 months ( daughter) 2 years ( son) 1 year 8 months (Hubby)
I like to believe the good die young.
I hope this never is a discission you will have to make ,
If you are an Atheist!!! Good for you. But I cant believe there is
no maker ....Call me wierd, your not the 1st to do it.

mindmelda

Besty, one of my best friends for the last 15 years that I AIM almost every day is a weak agnostic like yourself. She has a masters in education and is one of the brightest people I know.

We've talked about the implausibilty and plausibility of belief for 15 years now, and we're still the best of friends...and I'm still a believer in God (although my beliefs have evolved considerably) and she's still a 'weak agnostic' but now with a recent leaning to paganism.

When I was a JW, it was of course my goal to convert, convince, and debate with people to try to make them worship God, or "Jehovah".

I have no such needs now. My beliefs are personal, and yes, to some degree explicable because all spiritual belief is and just because Christ is the face of God that resonates with me does not mean it will be so for everyone.

I understand the need for rationality and order in one's life, and where it's important, for mundane matters, I believe in science, rationality, order and logic.

However, I seem to have this undeniable need to believe in the metaphysical, the unprovable, and the mystical. It could just be a brain glitch that all people with this need share, but nonetheless, I have the need. So, I address it sanely and have my religion between me and my God, Christ. I don't annoy others with it, I don't impose it on others, and I certainly don't feel the need to deconstruct other's beliefs, philosophies and ideas for them anymore.

I don't think that's what Christ or his apostles and disciples did. They merely presented their views in a public forum and then engaged those who responded. They didn't chase strangers down to private homes and barrage them with unwanted religious messages or inane pamphlets for a contribution, that's for sure!

I'm well aware of the doubts many have of the historical Christ. I'm an avid reader, and if you read my post above, I looked into everything that was available to me. I read the works of atheists, considered their points of view too. (Just like believers, no two atheists are on the same page either...they all have quite individual arguments against the existence of God.)

I'm probably the opposite of a Biblical literalist anymore. I love and appreciate the metaphor and the allegorical value of the Bible and haven't felt for some time that it's a literalistic guidebook that covers everything in life.

The Bible as myth or truth are not mutual exclusives to me, for I feel there is profound spiritual truth in myth. Probably in all myth. Millions of people lived and died on this planet without ever hearing of Christ or the Bible or the Ten Commandments, and yet, they developed spiritual myths that had power in their lives and had profound effect on civilization and had significant parallels to Christian myth. That fact is of more interest to me that worrying about everyone's destiny or salvation and feeling I have to "fix" everyone who has a different spiritual experience than I do, or that I need to force feed a specific spirituality to people with no apparent need for it.

Christ and the Bible is merely the spiritual myth that I understand best, that makes me feel connected to the metaphysical world, the divine, to God. I have no doubt that it's other myths for others.

You seem to mistake my comment about Muslims as an attempt to prove the superiority of Christainity over Islam. I'm not a JW anymore with this burning need to disprove all other religions so that my own faith will remain intact. That is not the basis of faith. Who am I to judge the sincerity, faith and godliness of millions of Muslims? For that matter, who am I to judge the sincerity, faith and godliness of millions of JWs? I have no interest in replacing or refuting or on the other hand proving God or the gods of others! And who am I to judge people that belief does not affect? I certainly don't feel superior to them.

If what religion is for some is about is feeling superior to all the other poor slobs who are "wrong" or to those who exist without it, then what a silly thing it is! It becomes nothing but institutionalized spiritual bigotry and a spiritual pissing contest. And no doubt, there are many who mainly participate for that very reason.

My spiritual journey is about continuing to discover my own intimacy with God now, nothing more. I only share it if people ask me to or with the like minded if we're in the mood. It's so wonderful not to have to try to shove religion down people's throats anymore, don't you agree?

In other words, you're demanding that I defend my faith, and it needs no defending, because it has nothing to do with your agnosticism. The rational standards of science and the process of logic are admittedly a poor fit to the metaphysical, it's by it's very definition inexplicable and outside of the laws of known physical science and rationality.

I consider it an irrational request to even ask someone to "prove" their faith now. It's a paradox! "Please use these rational means to prove the irrational so I can rationalize the irrational." LOL

caliber

The spark of life - that made that first cell replicate and the "evolution" of true consciousness and conscience make it difficult for me to accept the purely "rational" explanation of our world and our true selves...Allelsafails

All that evolutionists do is replace the word "God" with "chance". If you believe that this planet and all life on it resulted from blind chance you have even more faith than any religious person....yadda yadda

These two quote together are powerful , logical & bring great comfort and hope to my mind & spirit ! Thanks !!!

I consider it an irrational request to even ask someone to "prove" their faith now. It's a paradox! "Please use these rational means to prove the irrational so I can rationalize the irrational

This also is a beautiful thought don't ask anyone prove their faith .

"there will be answer , Let it be ....let it be " John Lennon

caliber

Does going beyond human rational make anything impossible ?

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: first, by reflection, which is noblest; second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third, by experience, which is the most bitter.”
Confucius quotes

I venture to say that faith is also this combination .... a combination of our outer world but also our inner world

which is unseen and unexplained and not clearly understood by others !

besty

@ Mouthy - I didn't take you out of context - I quoted the whole sentence - if anything you self-quoted out of context:

Your initial sentence reads:

I remember running out to the front of the house there was a grassy area
getting on my knees & thanking GOD!!!! I didnt ever pray so dont know why I did this ??/

Now your self-quote: - note that 2nd time around you changed this from never praying to not believing in God - naughty naughty...

If you read what I said I fell on my kness & I didnt even believe in a god....

My attempt to quote you: (there was no reason for me to include the 2nd sentence about you never praying as you had clearly just abandoned this lack of prayer by dropping to your knees and thanking the newly believable God)

I remember running out to the front of the house there was a grassy area getting on my knees & thanking GOD!!!!

Without meaning to be rude (and if you care to do so) I'd like you to answer my initial question:

what were you thanking him for?

mouthy

what were you thanking him for?

For helping me at 9 months pregnant
climb over a six foot fence so I could
open the gate that was blocked from tiles
off the roof to let an old 80 year old woman out .
I guess I realized it had to be anothers strength
that helped me do it .
Is that a good enough answer.?

But answer MY question would you pray
if your kids were dying?

My Weak Agnostic Testimony

besty

yadda yadda 2

mouthy

exjdub

mouthy

mindmelda

caliber

caliber

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: first, by reflection, which is noblest; second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third, by experience, which is the most bitter.”

besty

mouthy

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