Must see video on Youtube where a JW is clearly defeated on the trinity subject...

by Tuesday 347 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    Let me just say one thing If I didn't believe the witnesses I would still be an arian believer in God. I was delighted in research to find Believing in One true God was a theme throughout history and that important arian papers were destroy by the trinitarians to keep it suppressed, Many arians lost their life in trying to believe in One true God YHWH or kept their beliefs underground like Sir isaac Newton/Milton etc. trinity suppressed this One God belief suppressed to the point of death for many over the centuries.

    For me to have the freedom to Read the bible and believe in the One Almighty God Jehovah and our king his beloved son Jesus is his actual son it isn't some weird title, I consider this a blessing.

    trinitarians have had the run for many centuries they suppressed the bible, they added to scriptures (aka 1 john 5:7 among others we are not talking translation issues here but a full sentence that did not belong in the bible).

    Throughout the whole of Bible history there have been believers in One almighty God Jehovah/YHWH not the three-headed Pagan influenced trinity God and I am honoured to be among their company!

    Reniaa

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hi reniaa,

    I doubt very much that the discussion is staged but even if it was, the things discussed are still valid.

    Old or new, I still see the Trinity, even in the latest NWT for example.

    Romans 8

    9 However, YOU are in harmony, not with the flesh, but with the spirit, if God’s spirit truly dwells in YOU . But if anyone does not have Christ’s spirit, this one does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in union with YOU , the body indeed is dead on account of sin, but the spirit is life on account of righteousness. 11 If, now, the spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in YOU , he that raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also make YOUR mortal bodies alive through his spirit that resides in YOU .

    I agreed with pretty much every single thing the person in the video had to say to the two JWs, save Proverbs 8 which I believe not only speaks of wisdom but also of Jesus as I have stated.

    Anyhow, I have taken my advise and PMed you!

    All the best,

    Stephen

  • StAnn
    StAnn

    Reniaa, I will continue to pray for you for enlightenment and that you may find truth.

    St. Ann

  • passwordprotected
    passwordprotected

    Reniaa, when do you get time to prepare for meetings, have a meaningful share in the door-to-door ministry, study with your children (you have 3, right, one of whom is but a baby?), attend meetings, clean your home, earn a living etc etc? You really are a marvel. A single-mother of 3 young children with such time, dedication and Biblical knowledge to help all of us.

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    Now to the responses

    hi chalam

    you quoted phil 2:5-8 earlier this is simply addressed by looking at what is meant by the word 'Form/nature' used here. The Greek word ‘morphe’ means an image, impress or resemblance. Human beings are spoken of as having “a form (‘morphe’) of Godliness” (2 Tim. 3:5). and again being in the form of somethings means you are not that something.

    Then chalam you then go down the same route as bible Jim saying god can only be saviour but does the bible explain this apparent contradiction? before putting our own explanation on it?

    Acts 5:31
    God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.

    Acts 13:23
    "From this man's descendants God has brought to Israel the Savior Jesus, as he promised.

    God made Jesus the saviour and provided us the saviour so god himself is the source of that saviour so again the bible shows that is how this is explained. Jesus as Gods messenger and representative can do things on gods behalf including being the saviour sent by God.

    John 17:3 (New International Version)

    3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

    Genesis 18 (American Standard Version)

    1 And Jehovah appeared unto him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

    2 and he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood over against him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself to the earth

    Interesting how Jehovah appeared to Abraham as three men?! - chalam

    lol you actually made me read the whole chapter becasue I wanted to be clear on this one and there was the answer :)

    genesis 18 22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the LORD. [ e ] 23 Then Abraham approached him and said: "Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare [ f ] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge [ g ] of all the earth do right?"

    26 The LORD said, "If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake."

    but the men went to sodom and yet abraham is still talking to god? why did they need to goto sodom?

    Genesis 19 (New International Version)

    1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant's house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."
    "No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."

    3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate.

    well here we go the the men arrive at sodom and look they are actually angels, which suggests this is clearly a case of bible representing angels as God doing his work and talking for him. the 3rd angel had stayed back with abraham discussing sodom with abraham trying to save sodom.

    Notice they ate with lot too lol these angels like their food :) as a side point this clearly shows angels can make themselves physical bodies that can eat as humans.

  • Chalam
    Chalam
    Hebrews 1:3 (New International Version)

    3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

    Have a look at the greek here

    http://strongsnumbers.com/greek/5481.htm

    It says Jesus is the "exact representation", the "exact likeness" and literally the "character" of the invisible God. Now, I am sure you can understand why I believe that the bible clearly says Jesus is God, not "a god" like mortal men, angels, false gods and such!

    With regard to Genesis 18 & 19, you are correct, the "angel of the LORD" departed leaving the other two angels.

    Genesis 18:33 (American Standard Version)

    33 And Jehovah went his way, as soon as he had left off communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.

    Genesis 19:1 (American Standard Version)

    1 And the two angels came to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot saw them, and rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face to the earth;

    All the best,

    Stephen

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    hi undisfellowshipped.

    You bring up colossions

    Colossians 1:15-18 (King James Version)

    15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

    16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

    18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

    these scriptures actually use the word firstborn twice in regards to Jesus he is 'firstborn of creation' and 'firstborn of the dead' so your trying to say firstborn here means 'Preeminent one' only? well the word preeminence (biblie john used this word particularily from the kjv version) is used in itself why not use it again at the beginning say he is the 'preeminent one over all creation'? no it uses firstborn. Did Jesus die? so when it says he is the firstborn from the dead he is literally the firstborn from among the dead so you are not arguing here that he didn't die and was actually the preeminent one from among the dead? and so in the same scriptures it says he is the 'firstborn of creation' again here the context would show that is the same as the other firstborn used he was one of them, among them, the firstborn of them! the scripture actually explains it as well.....you yourself said everything was created 'through him and for him' and that is why he was the 'only begotten' since All other things was begotten with his help. In an earlier post it clearly show by scripture that 'all' is a limited number the 'other' is implied by it's usage. hebrew 1:6 proskunea aka obeisance/worship is a hotly debated subject it is clear it isn't limited to just worship and can mean the obeisance you give a king which Jesus is. Worship or obeisance is decided by context or in the case or bible translations apparently also by the translators doctrines - I will say it means obeisance, you will say it means worship and so we are deadlocked. i was surprised you brought up the angel god point. do you think God is an angel? the bible shows many cases of angels working on behalf of God and like the geneses scripture above they can be refered to in the first perspective as talking in Gods words as from God himself even though sent by him. Angel itself mean messenger of God and archangel means Cheif messenger of God. John 1:1 came up in an earlier post and my viewpoints on it. I'll check your post later a bit weighed under atm lol thx reniaa

  • thomas15
    thomas15

    Reniaa said: "Throughout the whole of Bible history there have been believers in One almighty God Jehovah/YHWH not the three-headed Pagan influenced trinity God and I am honoured to be among their company!

    Reniaa"

    It is at this point in your response my dear Reniaa, you loose all credibility.

  • insearchoftruth
    insearchoftruth

    Is there anyway to create a file of this presentation, can not access youtube from here.

    Also, how can the JWs refer to a three headed trinity when they have a two headed son of God, Michael/Jesus/Michael.......

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    hi chalam 'exact representation' 'exact likeness' 'image'

    these all actually prove Jesus isn't God none of these can be the original. just like man is made in the image of god but he too isn't god. image is not the original.

    If you are like something you are like it but you are not it.

    when you represent something you are not it.

    these are simple proofs that Jesus is not God.

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