Raymond Franz and UN

by kpax 150 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  hawkaw

  he is keeping tabs on the whole affair but didn't seem overly intested.

  Interesting but I am a little suprised.

  Why?

  Remember this is a man who took a whole chapter (6 if I remember) to "slam" the WTS and the GB over its Malawi policy and another chapter over military service.

  This chapter 6 of C of C was by far a killer from my point of view.

  One would think if one take great pains to expose what happened in Mexico for Malawi and the military duty stuff, he would be interested in this business.

  hawk
• 

  LDH

  Yes he is in his eighties.

  As far as the media thing goes, he is hardly big news anymore. When he did leave the JWs 60 minutes did a piece called 'Cracks in the Watchtower' (God I can never forget that title)

  It was regarding the Governing body etc etc.

  I really wish I could get my hands on that tape, it would be useful to have it on the internet. Perhaps Burrell's has a copy, I will find out.

  Lisa
• 

  Satanus

  Maybe the wt has seen fit to spread some disbursments his way to keep him from airing more of their dirty laundrey. Is this too far fetched? I don't think that it is outside his character. He has never, to my knowledge expressed hatred for the wt. He likely still has high or midlevel connections. He refuses to discuss the gb personal dirt. True, he stepped down from the gb, but he begged and pleaded to stay in the org. He is outside the org, but his mind isn't. The theological differences he has with them are not unique to him among the wt community.

  He was paid $10,000 as a severance. I'm sure recieving more wt money would not be at all objectionable to him. After all, he worked freely for them most of his life. If the tired old man was recieving an under the table wt pension, it would be mutually beneficial.

  SS' 2 cents
• 

  IslandWoman

  "Maybe the wt has seen fit to spread some disbursments his way to keep him from airing more of their dirty laundrey."

  RIDICULOUS!!!
• 

  avengers

  If Franz knows anything whatsoever about any involvement of the WT and the UN he should step out into the open with it. That's not too much to ask, is it?

  Hello brothers and sisters, where are you now?
  (Simple Minds)
• 

  MadApostate

  First, let me say that I am totally surprised that the AlanF/Farkel Fanclub has not gang-raped the few of you who have had the audacity to question their holy icon.

  If anyone might recall, not long after I started posting here in July, I seem to recall that I twice posted regarding the fact that RF is likely taking much undisclosed WTS info to his grave, and is anyone's speculation as to why.

  His defenders have previously responded that RF's principles are so lofty that he refuses to stoop to the level of revealing "tabloid-type" info about the WTS or individual members.

  Well, that is an easy excuse that they know can't be disproven. While I appreciate what RF has done by writing CoC and ISoCF, I also am not losing sight of the fact that RF possessed the necessary qualities, and performed the necessary activities, to move up the Borg ladder to become a member of the Borg GB. It is plain to see from CoC that if RF had had his way he would still be a member of the Borg GB, and probably the elite one at that. I always wonder which number is greater, the number of people he helped suck into the Cult over the years, or the number that he has helped out of the Cult since he left?

  SS's question regarding $$$ is a valid point. RF denies making any concessions for the $10,000. Maybe, maybe not. No other payments? Maybe, maybe not.

  The answers to those questions are just like numerous other questions that could be answered about the Borg. RF will carry them unanswered to his grave.

  Principle? Maybe.

  Principal? Maybe!!!
• 

  Farkel

  MadApostate,

  : If anyone might recall, not long after I started posting here in July, I seem to recall that I twice posted regarding the fact that RF is likely taking much undisclosed WTS info to his grave, and is anyone's speculation as to why.

  : His defenders have previously responded that RF's principles are so lofty that he refuses to stoop to the level of revealing "tabloid-type" info about the WTS or individual members.

  Makes sense. His books showed he was unwilling to do that, didn't they?

  : Well, that is an easy excuse that they know can't be disproven.

  No more easy to disprove than your statement it is "likely" he is taking much undisclosed WTS information to his grave. How "likely" is it, then MadApostate? How can you prove it is "likely?" Hypocrite. You blame some of us for making a supposition that Ray is a man of character who doesn't want to taint people individually (even though their is ample evidence for that in his books and public statements) and yet you think you "likely" statement should carry more weight as if it is significant or something. Hypocrite.

  One thing that no one can disprove: Ray has not vilified even ONE of his peers, but on the otherhand has disclosed more signifant WTS dirt than anyone I know about. If I was him, I would have disclosed every dirty deed done by my peers, but I'm not him, and he didn't do that.

  Farkel

  "I didn't mean what I meant."
• 

  Farkel

  MadApostate,

  Here you go again, making the same sort of speculations you rail others for making, hypocrite:

  : It is plain to see from CoC that if RF had had his way he would still be a member of the Borg GB, and probably the elite one at that.

  No it isn't. You are just guessing. You don't have a shred of proof for that statement.

  Farkel

  "I didn't mean what I meant."
• 

  MadApostate

  Fartface:

  I only rail about other's speculation when they present their speculation as conclusive fact.

  Only an idiot like yourself could read my post and conclude that it is presented as conclusive fact rather than my own speculation.

  In addition to other qualifying verbiage, how many times does the word "maybe" appear in my post?

  Now, TROLL, crawl back under your bridge and wait until you are needed to reveal someone's confidential info!!!
• 

  larc

  Mad,

  Let's see now. We have here, a man who was thrown out when he was 60+ years old, with next to nothing as far as a retirement benefit. He proceeds to write the two most influential books regarding the Watchtower, using detailed records from his files. You speculate that he is on the take. It seems to me that if he was, he wouldn't have written a word and would be living a very comfortable life. The two books he wrote took him thousands of hours, and he has a modest existence. Your "speculation" simply does not compute for me.

  Why should we expect a man in his mid- 80's, with health problems, to write yet another book? Why don't one of you young bucks take on the task. Doing so, will tie up most of your free time for the next few years. Better get it just right or the WT lawyers will be all over you and you will be ruined.

  Did you ever think that maybe Ray chose to only write what can be documented and stayed away from gossip and heresay for a couple of reasons?? By writing the way he did, it kept him out of court and it provided us with a credible source. Throwing in scandle would have helped book sales, but it would have weakened his case, and it would have promted some readers to reject it out right. Penton approached his book with the same sense of scholarship. He has certain opinions, about Rutherford, for example, but he won't write what he can not document. If you like something with more in the National Enquirer style, read Bergman's book.