Raymond Franz and UN (page 5)

Utopian Reformist

JT was correct. Many ex-JW's that I am beginning to notice are in fact never satisfied.

While we were all under the slave's thumb for a period or all of our lives, we are now free. If, as a service to others, your desire is to provide assistance and support to others still imprisoned by the WTBS, then give it 100%. Ray Franz certainly did, as othes have here, like ALAN, MAX, etc.

Now, there are some who eagerly wait for the next juicy tidbit/morsel of gossip, slander, scandal, controversy for personal enjoyment and for an indirect sense of revenge and justice. I do not condemn this sentiment, but it is very limiting and temporary. This type of mindset can grow or wind up leaving after a time and literally returning to possible unhappiness and unproductivity.

Rather than simply enjoy and benefit from the hard work of others, try to contribute. Improve your education and communication skills! You are now free! Do some extensive research and publish your findings, accept criticism, and develop yourself. There is much more to life after the WTBS than lapping up crumbs like a hyena.

Quit panting and get busy! Others have already contributed a plethora of information and services, let's all lend a hand and quit complaining for more when you have already been served a banquet.

Accept responsibility if you plan to assist others, and provide a relief for those who have been on duty for so long, or just enjoy the benefits WITHOUT imposing!

Just my two cents on the subject.

MadApostate

Andi:

Sort and simple:

RF was privy to info which no xjw here can discover through any amount of research.

Either he provides that info, or it dies with him.

If you don't care, Fine!

I do.

hawkaw

I have been busy for the past month researching and responding to You Know.

Hehehe - that is a full time job.

I sent him a Christmas card last week, but I have not heard from him for quite some time. If you are still in contact, would you ask him to e mail me?

I have his Emails but unfortunately he hasn't responded in a long time - that is okay though - I know what is going on and I have the utmost respect for the "main redactor dude".

Best bet is to get a hold of Alan who I think you know. I can't say much more on this open forum.

Thank you for telling me about Maximus's compliment.

Yep Max told me your background and you told him what Prof. Gorman and Eedermans (the publisher) would likely do when confronted with the facts that the WTS took a sentence in his book out of context in their Oct 15/00 QFR on blood - you were bang on. Sadly Gorman told me point blank on the telephone (in his Tenn. hills voice) that he would write to me on the issue to express his outrage but never did.

hawk

Billygoat

MA,

It's not that I don't care about what RF might take to his grave. I do. Truly I do. He does have info that probably nobody else has. But the sun, moon, and stars don't rise and set based on what information RF will die with. Neither will the fall of the WTS.

But I guess I look at it as his life has been demolished by a bunch of men. The emotionaly, mental and physical trauma that does to a man must be immense. He is an old man that has been to hell and back. Perhaps he'd like to live the last of his days enjoying what little he can of it. I can't imagine that dredging up more bad memories and files would be that rewarding when you know you don't have much time left. He probably feels he already wasted decades for men who didn't give a damn. Maybe he just wants to do what we want to do - live.

Personally I feel a bit sorry for RF. I am thankful for getting out at such a young age and seeing the light before that much of my life was gone. Yes, I'll do what I can to educate others about the falsehoods of the WTS, but it won't be my life work. I don't want to give that much more to the same men who didn't give a damn about me either. And if I don't have the motivation/energy to make it my life work, then I'd hope that others would have compassion and understanding for my reasons why. I'd hope they'd have the humility enough to forgive me.

Andi

hillary_step

Hello,

The mode of worship of the WTS is one based on the superficial requirement of visibility.

If an adherent is seen to be ‘seen’ at the meetings, ministry, assemblies, building projects etc. this is interpreted in terms of spirituality. Elders have to be ‘seen’ taking the lead, etc. etc. I am sure we all have seen this in operation and have grown to repudiate its effect on the lives of millions.

For example, a Pioneer, though lacking in any mature spirituality and though being noted for an appalling attitude of self-righteousness is always viewed as more ‘spiritual’ that a person engaging in just a few hours of Ministry. Why? Because they fulfill the sytems requirement of visibility. Visibility and spirituality become transferable words. This of course is an absurd system, similar to the one established by the Pharisees and their cohorts in the C1st, and craftily copied by Joseph Rutherford. It is not based on what truly identifies a good person but is an appeal to a superficial system of judgment that is attractive to those whose thinking has been distorted, and those self-serving individuals that scurry around all such corridors of power. Most of us have rightly been repulsed at the whole concept of judging a persons worth by their measuring up to a list of visible standards, while the person within goes unfed.

We would be duplicating this whole concept by beginning and escalating a judgment call on Raymond Franz based on what we perceive that he should now be ‘seen’ to be doing. Most of us are totally unaware of the projects that this elderly and now ailing man is working on as we speak, and that he does not wear his heart on his sleeve does not undermine the effectiveness of what he has achieved in the past. If he manages nothing else in his life, he has given freedom to many of us who were imprisoned in the emotional prison described above.

RF has on numerous occasions publicly apologized for the part he played in solidifying the foundations of a system he now views as corrupt. Most of us have not as yet done this because we perceive ourselves to be victims of people like Ray Franz. Those of you who have read his books realize that in many ways he was as much a victim as we were. Leave the man to find some peace in his life.

It is said that revolutions devour their children, let us hope that RF does share this fate.

Best regards - HS

sf

"Most of us are totally unaware of the projects that this elderly and now ailing man is working on as we speak,..."

Wait a sec, I thought he was too old and uninterested.

What is he DOING ACTIVELY TO EXPOSE THE CRIMINAL CORRUPTION?

Why, in one post is he "uninterested and aging", yet here, in this post, he is "DOING THINGS AS WE SPEAK"? What's his big secret and/or explosive "bomb" he has set for Teddy and Slickdick?

sKally, insignificant, yet Significant klass

wcrestnpeace

sf

=Duplicate post deleted=

JT

Billygoat says:

Now as ex-JW's we still expect for someone else to do our research and fighting for us. The sad thing about being a part of the borg, is that we learned to rely on others to battle for us
________

U GO GIRL!!!!!!!!!!!

And they use to tell us that Sisters were not smart- excellent observation on human behavoir- thanks so much

great post and on the MONEY

hillary_step

Skally,

Wait a sec, I thought he was too old and uninterested.

Please do not confuse the processes of 'reacting' and 'thinking', they are very different.

In your posts the past few days I have seen one of these processes developed into an art form.

HS

Celia

Ray Franz is an amazing man.
Look what his two books have done to help people out of the cult.
He is still overseing the translation of his books, which is a huge piece of work.
And he does it all alone, typing, putting into page form, sending to different people around the world.... CoC has been translated in spanish, russian, japanese and other languages, now the french speaking JWs and cult observers will soon be able to read it too.
I admire him greatly.

Raymond Franz and UN

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