Raymond Franz and UN (page 4)

hawkaw

Larc,

Leave me alone - I said how I felt and UR set me straight.

Now just back off.

hawk

C'mon guys, Ray owes us nothing at all. In his mid 80's his biggest concern is regularity and the location of his Ensure and Geritol. Let the old man rest in peace, he's done his part and more, and paid his fair share of dues. I salute him for his service to us while wishing he would have made further doctrinal steps away from the teachings of the society.

YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]

larc

OK Hawk,

Nuff said. Have a nice Christmas.

Utopian Reformist

Actually, I didn't "set" HAWKAW straight. He didn't need to be set at all. he asked legitimate questions. I think everybody's got their boxing gloves on a little too early this morning.

hawkaw

You too, Larc

BTW - we never talk much on this board. I guess are interests are different.

However, Maximus when he was doing well, spent a lot of time on the phone regarding you and told me a lot about you - especially when Max and I (with the help of others) were working the Professor Frank Gorman angle. Max said you are one sharp cookie.

hawk

JT

this comment was made:

C'mon guys, Ray owes us nothing at all. In his mid 80's his biggest concern is regularity and the location of his Ensure and Geritol. Let the old man rest in peace, he's done his part and more, and paid his fair share of dues. I salute him for his service to us while wishing he would have made further doctrinal steps away from the teachings of the society.

###########

this is an excellent post---

i have found it so interesting that so many folks who are now former jw are never satisfied - while I'm sure he knows more than he wrote- why do folks feel he is under some requirement to tell you everything he has exp in 60yrs as a jw

he told all of us enough info to realize that we were working for an american corporation- smile

and like it was mentioned what stood out to me most was the fact that he never wrote in an angry-pissed off tone- in fact he wrote more of a "I feel sorry for those dudes"
and he is right in my view- i look at jw be they elders - co -do and bethel buddies i left behind and feel sorry for them

for the joke is on them after all is said and done

i just love reading post of folks who try thier best to find something- anything will do- most of us have never met the man- wouldn't know him from Adam-
it is so funny reading this stuff

"I know he is getting paid under the table"
"he should have told us he caught so and so beating his meat"
and the list goes on and on

I find that the folks who are looking for that type of stuff miss the purpose of the book- they have been watching to many Clinton and Monica stories

i was impressed with the total manner that he decided to right the book for me i would have probably told who was banging what missionary and so forth, but that's just me--smile
my book would have been Juicy--smile

but he kept to the script of providing insight into the inner workings of the org and stayed away from the personally attacks

if i'm not mistaken i don't recall one single personal attack

if so someone please share it with me-

i guess the human nature in all of us want more and esp the juicy stuff- i mean in most of the freeword gossip is king- here in the usa we have talk shows, radio, mags and books devoted totally to the lastest Dirt

but as always we are all entitled to our opinions and that is why :

"I love this NET THANG"

james

TR

Good observations, JT.

I was impressed with RF's books for those reasons. Yes, I like to hear the dirt, it's the morbid curiosity, I guess.

Ray seemed so upstanding to me when I read his books. When I was a JW, all I remember hearing about Ray was that he was evil, and tried to take over the WTS! LOL! I think this is what the average JW thinks when they hear the name "Ray Franz."

TR

I'm gonna make mince meat outta that Osama!

Billygoat

MadApostate - It seems by your post that you feel RF has an obligation to stand up for all of us ex's. (If I'm reading it incorrectly, please forgive me...) Why do you feel he should be the one to speak up for us? Just curious...

i have found it so interesting that so many folks who are now former jw are never satisfied - while I'm sure he knows more than he wrote- why do folks feel he is under some requirement to tell you everything he has exp in 60yrs as a jw

This is something I've discussed at length with a friend of mine from this board. I think so many people expect more from RF and other ex's for one reason: We have been spoon-fed by the brothers for decades as JW's. Now as ex-JW's we still expect for someone else to do our research and fighting for us. The sad thing about being a part of the borg, is that we learned to rely on others to battle for us. But the beautiful thing is that now we are out, we can battle for ourselves. Research for ourselves. Speak up for ourselves. Yes, after years of not doing it, we are like little children at many skills so we won't necessarily be graceful at it. But we must remember - we are no longer rank and file! We don't have to wait for someone else to fight our battles.

Just my thoughts...

Andi

larc

Hawk,

Thank you for telling me about Maximus's compliment. I really appreciate it, coming from him, as I have the greatest respect for him. I sent him a Christmas card last week, but I have not heard from him for quite some time. If you are still in contact, would you ask him to e mail me?

No, I haven't responded much to your posts, but I have read much of your UN research and think it is outstanding. I didn't post anything because I really didn't have anything to add. I have been busy for the past month researching and responding to You Know. The majority of my recent posts are on four You Know related threads.

MadApostate

JT:

It's been nearly 2 decades since CoC was written, and nearly 1 decade since ISoCF. Besides that, I am not criticizing what (or how) he accomplished with those two books.

However, IMO, to say that he owes the world no more, just doesn't cut it.

RF worked for many decades, in numerous capacities, including writing books and articles and as a member of the GB. Most of his work occurred during the pre-1975 build-up, when hundreds of thousands were attracted to the JWs. RF incurred a debt during that time which he can only be pay back by doing everything in his power to reveal everything he knows about the WTS. As far as I'm concerned, he DOES OWE the world!

There's a plethora of ways and means to get the info out if he so chose, but according to insider posts here, he refuses to even privately divulge info with insiders.

I don't care what anyone else thinks, but if RF goes to his grave with such info, I'll not forgive him for such.

For those whose arguments rely on his age and health condition, I can only think about RF's Uncle Freddie who was doing his utmost to promote the Borg (including giving convention talks) until the day he died despite being blind. Unc Freddie appears to have been the more committed of the two.

If a thief robs you of $1000, you appreciate it if he turns himself in and begins a repayment schedule.

However, that appreciation doesn't last long when the thief stops half way through the repayments and tells you that he's not repaying any more because he feels that he has done enough.

Raymond Franz and UN

hawkaw

Yerusalyim

larc

Utopian Reformist

hawkaw

JT

TR

Billygoat

larc

MadApostate

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