Jesus.....God or God's son? (page 10)

isaacaustin

Yes angels are called sons of God BUT they can not do the things God can do. Read John ch 5- the Son does all the things the Father does exactly as the Father does them- things only God can do.

mdb

Designs,

"Isaac Newton realized what was going on and dumped the Trinity and opted for the Jewish model of Deut. 6:4, One God which Jesus quoted."

Plurality of God:elohim, echad

The Lord our God is one Lord

yhwh elohim echad yhwh

The Hebrew word for “one” is “echad” and allows itself to the plural form (alike, altogether, one, some). It is the same word used in:

Gen 1:5 “…were the first day.”

Gen 2:24 “…and they shall be one flesh.”

Num 37:17 “one cluster of grapes.”

Ezra 2:64 “The whole congregation together was 42,303”

Ezek 37:17 “And join them oneto anotherinto one stick;…”

The singular form of the word “one” in the Hebrew is “yachid”. It does not allow itself to plurality. God knows enough Hebrew that if he did not want to convey plurality regarding his person, he could certainly have used the word “yachid” here in the scriptures.

Persons of God in the OT :

The Spirit of God: Gen 1:2

The person of God we cannot see without dying: Ex 33:20

The person of God we can see: Gen 18:1; Gen 32:30; Isaiah 6:5

Two distinct persons have one of the primary names of deity, elohim , applied to them in Psalm 45:7 “…therefore God ( elohim ), thy God ( elohim ), hath annointed thee…”

Hebrew words ending with “im” are of the plural form and the Hebrew word elohim is the plural form of God. The singular form would be eloah (Hebrew) or elah (Aramaic).

Therefore, in Deut 6:4 we have two words in the plural form ( elohim : God, and echad: one) describing the Lord (YHWH).

isaacaustin

thanks mdb

Chalam

Hi Spike,

If Jesus' being Son of God makes him God, then the angels and Adam being called Sons of God must make them God, too. That doesn't seem right to me.

That's because it isn't! The Son is superior to the angels.

Hebrews 1 (New International Version)

Hebrews 1

The Son Superior to Angels

1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
"You are my Son;
today I have become your Father [ a ] " [ b ] ? Or again,
"I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son" [ c ] ? 6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
"Let all God's angels worship him." [ d ] 7 In speaking of the angels he says,
"He makes his angels winds,
his servants flames of fire." [ e ] 8 But about the Son he says,
"Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy." [ f ] 10 He also says,
"In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end." [ g ] 13 To which of the angels did God ever say,
"Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet" [ h ] ? 14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

Also, by very nature Jesus is superior to Adam who He created.

Colossians 1:15-16 (New International Version)

The Supremacy of Christ

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

Ephesians 3:9 (New International Version)

9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

Revelation 4:11 (New International Version)

11 "You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they were created
and have their being."

All the best,

Stephen

snowbird

Chalam/Stephen,

I can't view any videos while at work, but I found the book, Vintage Jesus, at Amazon.com and read the excerpts and reviews.

It seems that Pastor Driscoll is a character! I can't wait to view the video!

I am doing well, thanks for asking.

Sylvia

mdb

"Since Holy Spirit emanates from God, It is a perfect reflection of God's personality, IMO."

Jesus is also a perfect reflection of God and He is a person.

"but God only ever refers to Jesus as his son and never calls him 'My God'"

He does in the OT prophecies.

"According to the Scriptures, though, we CAN reason that Jesus is Mighty God, never Almighty God."

Yes it can be reasoned that Jesus is Almighty God. Just to spark some curiosity (Knowing that only God is Jehovah/YHWH - some believe Jesus was only Michael the archangel), read the following passage and tell me how many YHWH's are there...

Then the Lord [YHWH] rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the Lord [YHWH] out of the heavens. So He overthrew those cities, all the plain, all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground.
Genesis 19:24-25

Before Jesus was born to this world, He was the Word of God, the God of the OT (as a correct translation of John 1:1 states), the Angel of the Lord, Lord of Hosts. IT CAN BE PROVED FROM THE SCRIPTURES THAT JESUS IS ALMIGHTY GOD.

As a side note, how are you people getting your quotes in those little boxes?

possible-san

Hi, reniaa.

Yes.
You can express your belief, without attacking the Trinity.

P.S.

Jesus often says 'My god'

If you stick to the word "My God", what does John 20:28 mean then?
The expression "My God" means "Jehovah" for Jews. (Psalms 31:14; 91:2; 140:6)

It is not so simple as you think.

digderidoo

Thanks Sylvia for your response to my questions on original post.

It's a shame that this thread has descended into a lengthy debate between Renaii's official WT position and those that believe in the trinity. Whereas only one or two posts have responded to the question on the original post.

I already know the WT scripted response and as nobody other than Sylvia and another poster (sorry can't remember who) has attempted to answer my questions on Acts and Ecclesiastes, i am outta here. In fact in some forums the OP has the power to lock the thread, i wish that was the case here.

Paul

Spike Tassel

It's simple, with Childlike faith. Saying "My Lord and my God" might be like saying "My Lord, Wow!", or perhaps "You really are Jesus the Son of God, amazing!" Couldn't "my God" or "oh my God" be used just like it is nowadays?

sacolton

but God only ever refers to Jesus as his son and never calls him 'My God'

Have you forgotten this scripture already?

Hebrews 1:8

But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.

The FATHER calls His SON "O God". Why isn't this good enough for you? Straight from Jehovah and you still doubt it?

Jesus.....God or God's son?