Jesus.....God or God's son? (page 16)

androb31

Big G, little g.....must be one of those willy nilly deals huh Ren?

Mad Dawg

Ren,

You can repeat it as many times as you want, but you have not demonstrated that “Oh, God” in Psalm 45:6 and 7a refer to David. Yes we can and do draw on the two verses to show the diety of Christ.

In the reference to gods, are they true gods or false gods? It is hypocritical for anyone to complain the trinitarians teach polytheism while they are trying to teach that there are many gods. The WTS teaches polytheism. And before you try to weasel out by saying that there is only one God that you worship, keep in mind that is the same excuse that Mormons give.

{Psalm 82:1} God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among

the gods. {82:2} How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the

wicked? Selah. {82:3} Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. {82:4} Deliver the poor and needy: rid [them] out of the hand of the

wicked. {82:5} They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in

darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. {82:6} I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High. {82:7} But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. {82:8} Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

The ‘gods’ are wicked evil people, are you saying that the Son is evil and wicked?

Every time a JW quotes a verse, I read it in context of the paragraph or chapter it is a part of. It always means something different than what the JW’s claim is in the snippet they use.

reniaa

The point is on the table and proved that biblically the word god or divine or godlike can be applied to others especially when they are representing God's purposes and given power by god.

the burden of proof is on you guys to show this means more than that when refering to Jesus when the bible theme on Jesus is that he is completely subordinate to his father God. Being on the righthand of God but not God himself.

Reniaa

androb31

"The point is on the table and proved that biblically the word god or divine or godlike"

Sorry Ren, circular argument, Jesus' qualities go way beyond godlike. Actually the burden of proof is on you and the rest of the cults. The JW's, the Mormons, the COG and all the others who diminish Jesus power and position.

isaacaustin

Renia said:

The point is on the table and proved that biblically the word god or divine or godlike can be applied to others especially when they are representing God's purposes and given power by god.

My reply: In the case of Moses- who was representing God's purpose- he was 'AS God' to a person- Pharoah. In the case of rulers they are deemed such in cotrast to the true God- they are not truly God though. Jesus drove home the meaning of this in stating that he and the Father are one.

the burden of proof is on you guys to show this means more than that when refering to Jesus when the bible theme on Jesus is that he is completely subordinate to his father God. Being on the righthand of God but not God himself.

My reply:

Jesus drove home the meaning of this in stating that he and the Father are one. Jesus being eternally submissive to his father is irrelevant- a positional difference not of nature. We all acknowledge that. We have provided you the proff- you are too blinded to see it.

Reniaa

Mad Dawg

Ren said:

The point is on the table and proved that biblically the word god or divine or godlike can be applied to others especially when they are representing God's purposes and given power by god.

Are you a god, Ren? If we are all made in the image of God, doesn’t that mean that we are all godlike, and therefore gods? The WTS states that angels and demons are gods. Animals, insects, fish, and birds are all like us in various ways hence, they are godlike. If you apply any word too broadly, it becomes absolutely meaningless. The WTS use of the word god is so broad that it is meaningless and nonsensical.

You have nerve to ask that we prove anything when you ALWAYS dodge questions yourself. Don’t tell us that we are out of line for equating the exact same phrase from the NT to that phrase in the OT, when you and the WT strings verses that have nothing to do with each other. Like saying that Dan 4 has anything to do with any verse in the NT.

Again:

Ø In the reference to gods, are they true gods or false gods?

Ø Doesn’t the WTS teach polytheism, making themselves and you hypocrites?

Ø The ‘gods’ (in Psalm 82) are wicked evil people, are you saying that the Son is evil and wicked?

Ø Answer the questions in the above paragraph.

Ren said:

…the bible theme on Jesus is that he is completely subordinate to his father God.

Did you learn this yourself, or did some one else tell you? Hello, McFly!? This is what trinitarians themselves teach. It is known as functional subordination. If you want to score points, you should figure out what trinitarians are talking about. Do you enjoy arguing against things nobody believes? Are you too: A) Lazy B) Ignorant C) Deceitful D) Indoctrinated to accurately represent what trinitarians believe? Or do you simply find burning straw men too fun to resist? Your posts show total ignorance as to what trinitarians believe. Hint:IT IS NOT MODALISM!!!

mdb

Reniaa,

In the biblical sense what, in your mind, is the meaning of blasphemy?

reniaa

HI Mdb

Personally I think blasphemy is what trinitarians do with their unbiblical triune god and their cross idol on church altars but if you mean specifically I'll let God decide on that one.

Hi Mad dawg

Yes I agree trinitarians say Jesus is subordinate to God but then they also say he is equal to God so which is it? or are we just throwing oxymorons together as statements trying to make the assertion be proof in itself, which it isn't it's just a statement.

Reniaa

mdb

Personally I think blasphemy is what trinitarians do with their unbiblical triune god and their cross idol on church altars but if you mean specifically I'll let God decide on that one.

I asked you a simple question and did not attack you. Your response was pretty rude.

I'll help you out here since you only seem to want to be hostile: blasphemy is "impious and reproachful speech injurious to divine majesty."

Would you agree with that definition and that blasphemy can only, by it's definition, be directed toward God?

Mad Dawg

It is ontological equality with functional subordination. Similar to the idea that all men are equal, yet men will subordinate themselves to others. "Equality" and "subordination" refer to two different aspects of God. Equality refers to the intrinsic being of God. Subordination refers to how the persons relate to each other.

Jesus.....God or God's son?

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